Ladder testing

[ta6ppc]

Is it worth ladder testing a skinny sporter weight barreled rifle?

This rifle I have has no real predictability and shoots rather poor in my opinion.

I have recently got a lab radar and have watched several YouTube videos, and one of the videos actually said the rifle being ladder tested should have benchrest like performance or be capable of it.. So at that moment I realized that everyone doing ladder test were testing rifles with varmit or heavier barrels..

what do you guys say? This is new to me having a crono and all..

 

[Fast14riot]

With sporter weight barrels I usually shoot for groups, depending on chambering I typically only shoot 3 round groups to keep the barrel cool. After settling on the best couple groups I chrono and move on from there.

 

[piie]

The barrel profile should have no bearing on your decision to ladder test ( or do any kind of load development) in my view.

How old is this rifle?
Does it still have enough barrel life left?
Have you eliminated all other “variables” as causes for the unpredictable shooting? Few things in this category would be things like whether the action is loose in the stock, whether the scope/sights are not loose/faulty, and if you have free floated or bedded the action.

How does the rifle shoot with factory ammo?

General rule of thumb is that if the rifle is in proper working order, you should be able to hand load more accurate ammo than what you can buy off the shelf.

 

[daniel brothers]

ladder testing ... test the load more than the barrel.

 

[JFrank]

If ya want to achieve improved accuracy than yes.
For a sporter Barrel I use an abbreviated one shot of each charge ladder to quickly narrow the area I want to work with them move to small groups.

 

[Clark]

I cannot replicate ladder testing data from 2 different days.

 

[Straightshooter1]

I cannot replicate ladder testing data from 2 different days.

Frankly, that's no surprise to me (not having to do with you individually). IMHO, one ladder test is just not a scientific approach. One needs to be able to duplicated results for any hypothetical to have any validity.

 

[6.5grendel]

With sporter weight barrels I usually shoot for groups, depending on chambering I typically only shoot 3 round groups to keep the barrel cool. After settling on the best couple groups I chrono and move on from there.

This is exactly what I do with my hunting rifles that have sporter weight barrels. Any kind of load development, whether its ladder, OCW, or one of the many other methods, should be an improvement over factory ammo or just picking a random load. Doesn't matter what contour barrel. I'd just pick whichever load development you prefer and go with that.

 

[ta6ppc]

The barrel profile should have no bearing on your decision to ladder test ( or do any kind of load development) in my view.

How old is this rifle?
Does it still have enough barrel life left?
Have you eliminated all other “variables” as causes for the unpredictable shooting? Few things in this category would be things like whether the action is loose in the stock, whether the scope/sights are not loose/faulty, and if you have free floated or bedded the action.

How does the rifle shoot with factory ammo?

General rule of thumb is that if the rifle is in proper working order, you should be able to hand load more accurate ammo than what you can buy off the shelf.

This rifle is less around 100 rounds fired and is a factory Remington CDL bedded into a Hs stock with a 510 timney trigger its torqued into the stock 65 in pounds, has a Badger rail also torqued and blue lock tight, the scope is a Leupold mark 4, which is new and just out of the box, torqued into nightforce rings and the rings were torqued onto the rail all torqued screws were done with a proto torque wrench that was calibrated last year.

 

[CharlieNC]

First I would use a medium powder charge, and carry out the Berger recommended test for seating depth. I have found major improvement across the wide range as they suggest. Then with that seating depth which should yield decent groups, a single shot ladder using fine increments across a wide powder charge range should reveal one or two nodes where the point of impact is stable. Ladder worked great for my 45-70 lever action too! In fact your skinny barrel should exhibit major nodes in this fashion.

 

[Alex Wheeler]

In my opinion, a ladder is a good way to rough in a sporter. But, only a well built one. I do not recommend a ladder for a rifle you can not trust each shot. You may be better off shooting groups. It will take a few more but you wont end up chasing your tail.

 

[RegionRat]

Yes, even a sporter can benefit from a ladder test. However, the other comments are also true in that there can be enough dispersion at each ladder step to make it a little harder to interpret the results.

There is only one way to know, and that is to go try. Your first goal should be to walk away with an understanding of how that gun and load behave in terms of high pressure signs so you can plan for the type of weather you shoot under.

Sometimes, you will see a sporter that runs multiple sweeps with great accuracy and others that don’t. Those that don’t will also not do well with group testing either since each ladder step when repeated should span the same levels you would go back and group test.

A good seating depth sweep at your preferred speed would also help.

 

[Mad_Charlie]

First I would use a medium powder charge, and carry out the Berger recommended test for seating depth. I have found major improvement across the wide range as they suggest. Then with that seating depth which should yield decent groups, a single shot ladder using fine increments across a wide powder charge range should reveal one or two nodes where the point of impact is stable. Ladder worked great for my 45-70 lever action too! In fact your skinny barrel should exhibit major nodes in this fashion.

With a factory Remington, the bullet might be just about out of the case before he finds the lands.

 

[daniel brothers]

I believe that to do a proper ladder test... the rifle must first be able to shoot a small repeatable group... then shoot the ladder test way out there... like 400-600 yds.

 

[ta6ppc]

With a factory Remington, the bullet might be just about out of the case before he finds the lands.

so the lands are at 3.7 oal depending on ogive so I have settled on mag length which is 3.65” oal so I should be jumping right at 50.

i shot some groups the other day I loaded 5 rounds of each charge and I did get an acceptable group at 75.5 with a 200 accubond. This was befor I acquired the lab radar. I was severely disappointed with this rifle because federal fusion 165 gr, even hornady eldx 200 were hovering around the 3” mark with 5 min cool downs. I pulled the eldx bullets out to 3.65 oal and group shrunk to about 1.2-1.5 inch from 3 at 200 yards.

 

[Coyotefurharvester]

Sub moa three shot groups and a predictable cold bore zero is all you need for big game hunting.

 

[CharlieNC]

With a factory Remington, the bullet might be just about out of the case before he finds the lands.

There are two versions of the Berger test, for hunter and target rifles. It's not about being on the lands but actually going much, much further off. On my target rifle I found .040 to be significantly better than close to lands. Surprisingly very long jumps can be best.