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Ladder Test Interpretation

damoncali & T-REX -

The advantage of a ladder test , in my experience, is to finding accuracy zones efficiently from a large increment spread with the fewest amounts of component waste, with the least amount of barrel heat, and barrel life exhausted. Then from the found charge zones (nodes), fallow on group testing and /or tuning from with in the found zones will pinpoint the optimal charge.

Other positive aspects to come from ladder testing; ladder testing is a very effective and safe way to find maximum pressures to each rifles own unique characteristic with out excessive loading (and unloading) of ammo, by only needing one loaded round per increment up the charge ladder.

When utilizing a chronograph, base line velocity to every charge increment are established which reveals the powders speed/velocity, sensitivity, and maximums for that given cartridge. Which in return goes far to established data base, desired velocity & ballistic capability, as well as development direction of where to proceed and where not to proceed. That in return tells us what to expect at each charge level in terms of velocity, pressure, and accuracy for future development planning as one does proceed.


Vertical dispersion and velocity spread between increments are my only focus with ladder testing. I typically conduct them at 450 and/or 1000-yards, and I basically pay no attention (or very little) on horizontal dispersion. From which wind and/or horizontal dispersion is almost a non-factor. It is common for me to perform ladder tests in the less then favorable conditions part of a testing day, saving the more favorable hours for group testing and or tuning, where favorable conditions are more desired.

Below I am adding in 3 separate ladder tests conducted at 450 yards of 10-increments each. Resultants compiled as data, to show from a data standpoint what can be learned from ladder testing.

Here is the complete Velocity data and Vertical dispersion data of the 3 separate ladders:

MvData1_zps7fcd48fa.png


VertData1_zps1fdcca75.png


Here is the measured POI Vertical dispersion plotted from the 450-yard target:

DispData3_zps517c02fe.png


As I stated above, vertical dispersion is my primary concern and the ES between charge increments. I plot and measure the vertical dispersion of each bullet hole from a common point on the targets and add that data to my discovery sheets/records.

Each ladder was ran individually, then repeated after ample time to let the barrel cool between each ladder.
The 1st ladder alone yielded conclusive results. The 2nd and 3rd repeated ones clarified the vertical dispersion and velocity confirmation, that in all actuality were not needed.
The rifle used is a 1000BR rifle chambered in 6Dasher with 105-VLD/RL15/CCI-450/Lapua brass.

Hope that helps !.!.!
Donovan
 
CharlieNC said:
I'm sure it's just another coincidence, but your node in the 38.0-38.5 region just happens to fall perfectly on a OBT node when I plug your data in Quick Load.

I just read the OBT paper the other day, still trying to grasp it. What are you looking at in QuickLoad to determine accuracy nodes?
 
Waldo the Quick Load program calculates barrel time (BT) which you compare to the OBT node times as given by Chris Long, and then adjust the load in the program to achieve the desired result (also safe pressure, velocity, etc). As many others have reported, I also have found an excellent correlation with nodes determined from "ladders" as Donovan has shown in a previous post.
 
Donovan hit it perfectly!! IMO you must chrono along with the ladder test, otherwise you could be getting results from an errant bullet. However, rarely does the MV tighten up AND the POI and it not be a node. I have run numerous tests and YOU WILL see POI and MV closeness on a node repeatedly most of the time.

On a normal ladder you will see a wide variance of MV (say jumps of 25 fps for example) and then it tightens up (4-6 fps jumps) and the POI tightens also. I normally pick the middle and fine tune from there. Those examples are just that, each gun will show a different MV pattern in amount of fps, but it will be there.

I have taken a new barrel, broken it in with 10 shots, shot a ladder one evening and come back the next to fine tune and won state next two days. Total rounds fired before competition was under 50 rounds.
 
So where does seating depth fit into the ladder test, do you just pick one that worked in the past and run the test?

I would think a change in the seating depth would make a big difference on paper at 450-500, touching vs .040 off seems like it could change the results considerably. Would the test be then rerun? I know I'm stating the obvious here with the seating issue but I'm just wondering how that is factored in or dealt with by using tis method to eliminate lousy loads.
 
mshelton -

I've tried both ways and find the charge to be the most critical aspect to find first, that effects all other tuning abruptly and more significantly. Also in my experience, if we are not in a good charge zone, vertical can plague seating tests.

Personally I start by finding the charge zones (via ladder test), then I move on to finding the best seating zones, then I go back and refine both from there found zones to find the optimal charge and optimal seating depth.

After pin-pointing both the optimal charge and seating, I then proceed to fine-tune the load by neck tension adjustments and variations of brass prep (primarily the necks).
Donovan
 
dmoran said:
mshelton -

I've tried both ways and find the charge to be the most critical aspect to find first, that effects all other tuning abruptly and more significantly. Also in my experience, if we are not in a good charge zone, vertical can plague seating tests.

Personally I start by finding the charge zones (via ladder test), then I move on to finding the best seating zones, then I go back and refine both from there found zones to find the optimal charge and optimal seating depth.

After pin-pointing both the optimal charge and seating, I then proceed to fine-tune the load by neck tension adjustments and variations of brass prep (primarily the necks).
Donovan

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Big 10-4 on this method
 
To test for ‘the’ charge weight first, before hunting ‘the’ seating depth, surely is the right way to go about it, but while testing for ‘the’ charge weight, where should the ogive be in relation to the lands?

It seems to me logical to test for charge weight with the ogive at least touching or even on to jammed as hard as it might ever be. That way if ‘the’ new found charge weight so happens to make pressure enough to put it already near the high end of acceptable, then with incrementally backing out of or away from the lands your only option, doing so will also be incrementally lessening pressure, for awhile anyways, and not further increasing pressure by taking the ogive ever nearer to or deeper into the lands. What you’ll say?
 
^^^^^^^ I agree.....

With initial seating tests I start IN and work in one direction, OUT.
Donovan
 
At the point with a 6 dasher that I would like a number with how far "in" for starting point. Makes sense working back out.
D
 
dbduff said:
At the point with a 6 dasher that I would like a number with how far "in" for starting point. Makes sense working back out.
D
Personally with my 6Dasher's, I start development from a very light neck tension, which will only allow a "soft jam" without slipping/pushing the bullet deeper into the case. With that said, I start at that point: "soft jam".
Donovan
 

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