Lack of 220 Russian Brass and Annealing

[Leeinmichigan]

Since there appears to be a lack of Lapua 220 Russian brass available for purchase for the 2024 short range Benchrest season, what are the current thoughts in regard to rejuvenating old 6 ppc brass via annealing? I know that I won’t shoot if my brass is too old. Is this an option to get a few more aggs out of old brass?

Thanks, Lee

 

[Jud96]

I’m curious of this as well. I recently retired some brass with 10-12 firings on it and I could feel the neck tension was much less than 2x fired brass. Some people have reported success with the Norma 6PPC brass and it’s available.

 

[gunsandgunsmithing]

Since there appears to be a lack of Lapua 220 Russian brass available for purchase for the 2024 short range Benchrest season, what are the current thoughts in regard to rejuvenating old 6 ppc brass via annealing? I know that I won’t shoot if my brass is too old. Is this an option to get a few more aggs out of old brass?

Thanks, Lee

Depends on what's giving up about the brass. Ya can't anneal primer pockets back and all the fixes I've seen and tried for bolt click from tired and/or over pressured brass, are temporary fixes at best.

If you're losing neck tension consistency, yes, done right annealing can cure that. I still have problems seeing how it will fix shoulder bump without over cooking the necks, particularly on thin neck turned brass...Just my 2 cents again. YMMV.

 

[DaveTooley]

I've got 700-800 firings on 16 pieces of brass. I just went down a bushing size.

 

[Leeinmichigan]

I've got 700-800 firings on 16 pieces of brass. I just went down a bushing size.

Dave, No disrespect, but have you won anything with 50 firings on a piece of brass? I’m asking this question in regard to short range group competitive benchrest shooting.

 

[Jefferson]

Dave, No disrespect, but have you won anything with 50 firings on a piece of brass? I’m asking this question in regard to short range group competitive benchrest shooting.

Yup 50 or more firings but not the 700 referred to above

 

[DaveTooley]

Lee you know the answer to that.
I shoot very little these days. I'm not capable of winning but I know the rifle when in tune is capable of keeping up with all but the best out there.
My comments were directed to us common folk trying to get by. Not BR royalty.

 

[DaveTooley]

Yup 50 or more firings but not the 700 referred to above

Simple math
700÷16 is 43 firings on each piece.

 

[Silo1616]

In my attempt to resurrect old brass, alter annealing the neck and should seem to respond ok but once the base (.200" line) gets hard or grows to the point that produce "clickers" no amount of sizing/annealing with get it back to acceptable.

 

[gunsandgunsmithing]

Simple math
700÷16 is 43 firings on each piece.

Lots of factors to brass life. Dies and chambers are minor compared to how hot ya load, IME. I can trash anyone's brass in one firing and yes, I've been to 50 firings on brass that I hammered on for a long time..hard. That was probably a couple of firings too far in my case as it started double grouping. New brass cured that. You could certainly get more than 50 firings if loading mildly and the chamber to die relationship is ideal or very near it. In my 6mm and 22 cases, primer pockets are typically what gives up first but I was shooting a 30 back then and it was hard to wreck the brass with barely sane loads. Annealing may have fixed that brass for a while, but after 50 firings, I feel like I got my money's worth and trashed it.

 

[jimmymac]

Hi Lee. The only reason I started annealing this season is because of the brass shortage. I haven’t come to any conclusions yet about longevity, but I should have a much better idea come fall if the juice is worth the squeeze. Jim

 

[ebb]

I am not sure if there is a cure for the .200 line, But if you can bush a firing pin hole you can fix a primer pocket. i seem to recall some of the 2000yd elk shooters doing it many years ago, some even went to the steel base like the new 6.8 military round with 7-300 WBY. All the old timers were innovators and I think if we are going to continue to shoot, we will be also

 

[Leeinmichigan]

Simple math
700÷16 is 43 firings on each piece.

Dave, No, 800/16= 50 firings.
I have limited new brass, and my old brass has around 20-25 rounds on them.
Sorry, I’m not royalty, I just want to know can you use annealed brass in competition. Not to punch holes in a targets and/or finish in the middle of the pack, but to win? The shortage of Lapua brass hasn’t been an issue in the past.

 

[gunsandgunsmithing]

Actually it has, but it's been a while

 

[DaveTooley]

Dave, No, 800/16= 50 firings.
I have limited new brass, and my old brass has around 20-25 rounds on them.
Sorry, I’m not royalty, I just want to know can you use annealed brass in competition. Not to punch holes in a targets and/or finish in the middle of the pack, but to win? The shortage of Lapua brass hasn’t been an issue in the past.

A shortage of Sako 220 Russian lead a group of us to bring out the 30 American case. Seely Masker had his version and I had mine for a 6MM Donaldson. Lot of work to make cases but it shot well. Then George Kelbly stepped up and imported brass.
As far as can you win with annealed brass. We'll know that later this year. I think it will be tricky annealing thin necks. Not impossible but tricky to get a consistent hardness. I would take an old set of cases and start with a conservative anneal. If that didn't change anything I would increase the time in the flame. I think it may be one of those things where you won't know if you got the desired results until well down the road.
First I would try a smaller bushing, more neck tension, knowing the bullets acts as an expander mandrel evening up neck tension to some extent. That's what I did and it seemed to help.

 

[David Conder]

Thanks to Dave I bought 6ppc brass from him when he was selling brass ani still
have some of the gold box thanks Dave

 

[AlNyhus]

Lee, while I'm not an active Group shooter, I've had my share of very good 6PPC BR rigs over the years. Still have one. Anyway, I've had good results on Lapua 220R cases with a light stress relieving at the neck/shoulder junction (325 degrees for 5 seconds) using my little Meeks annealer. It brought the neck tension back and the shoulders stayed put...no chasing the set back by adjusting the die down. This was on brass used in .261/.262/.263 neck diameter chambers. Barrels shot as well with this brass as with fresh Lapua 220 prepped cases.

I found that doing the stress relieving on new Lapua cases prior to fire forming increased the number of firings I got before the neck tension and shoulder set back began to go away. The brass movement that happens on that first firing 'uses up' a lot of the cases elasticity on that first hit. With a bit of light lube on the cases, it also gave perfect cases on the first firing...no need to hit them once or twice more.

 

[Leeinmichigan]

Thanks Dave and Al. Not sure what I’ll do. I haven’t ever annealed brass. However, I do have old brass with few rounds shot on them when I made a barrel change, and these should be the first set to experiment with. Lapua brass shortage could last several years.., I hope not!

 

[AlNyhus]

Lee, feel free to send me a few and I'll touch them up for you. Then you can see if it works for your program. -Al

 

[Jerry Wick]

Lee, maybe not ideal, but it might be worth trying, MidwayUSA and Graf & Sons both have Norma 6PPC brass in stock. The necks are a little thinner than virgin Lapua 220R, but if you're turning them anyway it's a non-issue.