Labradar Question

[Timon]

I’m new to using the Labradar and have a question. Tomorrow I am doing a powder load development. I’m shooting six different powder charges, with five shots on each one. I’ll be shooting round robin through them, one through six, then again and again five times. My question is, could the Labradar be set up with six different series of shots, one for each charge weight, so that I would just toggle between each series, for each shot. I would wind up with six series, with five shots on each series, that would provide the data on each of the series; es, sd, etc. I would prefer this to shooting one large series with all the shots within that one. I can do it manually, but I was wondering if the Labradar could do this?

I know this is kind of confusing, hope you understand what I am asking. Thanks so much.

 

[Chris Edmondson]

I’m new to using the Labradar and have a question. Tomorrow I am doing a powder load development. I’m shooting six different powder charges, with five shots on each one. I’ll be shooting round robin through them, one through six, then again and again five times. My question is, could the Labradar be set up with six different series of shots, one for each charge weight, so that I would just toggle between each series, for each shot. I would wind up with six series, with five shots on each series, that would provide the data on each of the series; es, sd, etc. I would prefer this to shooting one large series with all the shots within that one. I can do it manually, but I was wondering if the Labradar could do this?

I know this is kind of confusing, hope you understand what I am asking. Thanks so much.

Good question. I think you are asking if Labradar can be "armed" in your shot group of choice. I don't think so, but I've never tried it. I have disarmed it, examined another shot group, then re-armed it; the new shots were associated with the last active group, not in the one I was examining.

 

[Timon]

Good question. I think you are asking if Labradar can be "armed" in your shot group of choice. I don't think so, but I've never tried it. I have disarmed it, examined another shot group, then re-armed it; the new shots were associated with the last active group, not in the one I was examining.

Basically it. If I arm it and take a shot in series 1, could I disarm it, switch to series two then arm it and take a shot, then onto series three. If you understand what I’m saying. I can do it all manually, just wondering if it could do this

 

[whatsupdoc]

No, you cannot do that. I have tried it and the unit always goes to the last
series.

Kind of shortsighted on labradars part and I am sure it can be coded
into the firmware.

 

[Timon]

No, you cannot do that. I have tried it and the unit always goes to the last
series.

Kind of shortsighted on labradars part and I am sure it can be coded
into the firmware.

Thanks anyway, was just wondering. I thought the series should be user selectable, so to speak.

 

[ShtrRdy]

The Labradar is not able to do what your ask9ng. You'll have to capture all the shots in one series and then sort it out.

Or you could not do the round Robin thing and shoot the five rounds in separate series.

 

[JimSC]

Thanks anyway, was just wondering. I thought the series should be user selectable, so to speak.

If any of your buddies has a ProChrono optical see if he/she will loan it to you, then download the bluetooth control application on your phone or tablet. What you want to do would be very easy with their software

 

[Fuj]

Easiest way to do it is, do an individual series, but don't lose track !!
Fire your first five then start a new series for each individual charge.
I do this quite a bit testing powders. Each series is stored and you
can check the velocity of each shot in each series. It's all in the manual.
If you don't have one, Lab Radar has a PDF version for free download.

 

[Chris Edmondson]

If all you are after are the stats, like Average, ES and SD, for a synthetic group, and if you have a spreadsheet like Excel, you can easily step through each group's shot list and record each velocity across the 'sheet column-wise, then move to the next row and repeat for the next shot group group. If you had five groups each with 5-shots let's say, you'll now have five columns, each with five rows, the columns represents your synthetic groups . Then use the =AVERGAGE(), =MIN(), =MAX() and =STDEV-S() functions to compute the stats below each column.

I haven't used an sd-card in my Labradar for a while but if memory serves, the data is saved there in an Excel -compatible format that would make it even easier to copy/paste the data rather than manually transcribing it.

The only catch is when, and if, Labradar drops a shot here and there, you'll need to make a note that the 3rd shot in a group is really the 4th shot because the 3rd shot was dropped.

If a sample spreadsheet would be helpful, PM me and I'll gin one up for ya.

 

[deltaoutdoorsman]

I called Labradar after purchasing mine because I couldn’t believe you wasn’t able to switch between groups. They confirmed it wasn’t possible to return to a past series.
Their recommendation for almost the exact situation you described was to have multiple SD cards and swap it out when you want to switch.
Wasn’t a good solution for me. But might work for someone else.

 

[Konocti's Wigwam]

I just ordered a Labradar and I have seen it done as Fuj described it, individual series.

The one thing I want to build is a trigger. I think you need a trigger unless you're shooting by yourself.

This is a really informative video on building a trigger, if you don't have one. I bought some of those spring sensors on Ebay for like $7 w/shipping.

 

[Timon]

Thanks so much everyone for your responses. I could do each charge as a series, shooting all of them at one time then moving onto the next charge. I really want to do it as round robin type testing moving through the loads and shots. As I said, I can do it manually through notes, I was just hoping Labradar would allow me to switch between series’. I keep good notes anyway, I’m old school when it comes to data retention. Again, thanks everyone for the very good ideas!

Scott

 

[whatsupdoc]

I called Labradar after purchasing mine because I couldn’t believe you wasn’t able to switch between groups. They confirmed it wasn’t possible to return to a past series.
Their recommendation for almost the exact situation you described was to have multiple SD cards and swap it out when you want to switch.
Wasn’t a good solution for me. But might work for someone else.

For round robin that would be insane you would have power down, switch the card
then power up for each shot. I can almost guaranty screwing it up.

 

[Ned Ludd]

I just ordered a Labradar and I have seen it done as Fuj described it, individual series.

The one thing I want to build is a trigger. I think you need a trigger unless you're shooting by yourself.

This is a really informative video on building a trigger, if you don't have one. I bought some of those spring sensors on Ebay for like $7 w/shipping.

It will cost a bit more than $7, but you can also just buy a ready-made kinetic trigger and mount:

Labradar Trigger Gen 2

This is the gen two trigger for the LabRadar chronograph. It will work on anything from a 22LR to a big bore rifles. The trigger works great with suppressors and crowded ranges. The new, removable …

jklprecision.com

I use the magnetic mount version and am very happy with it.

To the OP - the "round robin" approach isn't buying you anything in terms of optimizing test results or statistical validity. If that approach is a [minor] impediment to manipulating the velocity data afterward, you can always omit it and simply shoot each shot within a single charge weight before moving on to the next. Believe me, it's not going to change the results.

 

[Timon]

It will cost a bit more than $7, but you can also just buy a ready-made kinetic trigger and mount:

Labradar Trigger Gen 2

This is the gen two trigger for the LabRadar chronograph. It will work on anything from a 22LR to a big bore rifles. The trigger works great with suppressors and crowded ranges. The new, removable …

jklprecision.com

I use the magnetic mount version and am very happy with it.

To the OP - the "round robin" approach isn't buying you anything in terms of optimizing test results or statistical validity. If that approach is a [minor] impediment to manipulating the velocity data afterward, you can always omit it and simply shoot each shot within a single charge weight before moving on to the next. Believe me, it's not going to change the results.

Thanks Ned, I enjoy testing things, particularly reloading. I’m one of those people that shoots to reload. I have as much, if not more fun reloading and testing, as I do shooting. I have OCD, for real, and I just love notes and details, so the “round robin” approach gives me greater enjoyment. I can fire each shot, then take all my notes from the Labradar, then move onto the next. In the end I can do all the number crunching. I was originally just wondering what the capabilities of the Labradar were.

I am just curious though. Statistically, you believe there is no difference, to firing five shots at one load, then five at the next load, over firing the rounds “round robin”? I would think, that the later approach, would more equalize any changes that are taking place to the rifle as a result of heat and built up carbon etc. in the barrel. I’m still going to do it the “round robin” method, but was just curious on your thoughts and the basis of them.

 

[Timon]

If all you are after are the stats, like Average, ES and SD, for a synthetic group, and if you have a spreadsheet like Excel, you can easily step through each group's shot list and record each velocity across the 'sheet column-wise, then move to the next row and repeat for the next shot group group. If you had five groups each with 5-shots let's say, you'll now have five columns, each with five rows, the columns represents your synthetic groups . Then use the =AVERGAGE(), =MIN(), =MAX() and =STDEV-S() functions to compute the stats below each column.

I haven't used an sd-card in my Labradar for a while but if memory serves, the data is saved there in an Excel -compatible format that would make it even easier to copy/paste the data rather than manually transcribing it.

The only catch is when, and if, Labradar drops a shot here and there, you'll need to make a note that the 3rd shot in a group is really the 4th shot because the 3rd shot was dropped.

If a sample spreadsheet would be helpful, PM me and I'll gin one up for ya.

Chris I’m trying to learn Excel now so that I can set up some of these things.

Scott

 

[Litespeed]

I haven't tried this but it may work. Record all shots in one series. Take the SD card out and make multiple copies of that series (will likely need correct naming convention). Put it back in the labradar and remove the shots that don't belong to that series. You should end up with a file for each shot string that you wanted. It would take some work but would give you what you are looking for.

 

[ShtrRdy]

Thanks Ned, I enjoy testing things, particularly reloading. I’m one of those people that shoots to reload. I have as much, if not more fun reloading and testing, as I do shooting. I have OCD, for real, and I just love notes and details, so the “round robin” approach gives me greater enjoyment. I can fire each shot, then take all my notes from the Labradar, then move onto the next. In the end I can do all the number crunching. I was originally just wondering what the capabilities of the Labradar were.

I am just curious though. Statistically, you believe there is no difference, to firing five shots at one load, then five at the next load, over firing the rounds “round robin”? I would think, that the later approach, would more equalize any changes that are taking place to the rifle as a result of heat and built up carbon etc. in the barrel. I’m still going to do it the “round robin” method, but was just curious on your thoughts and the basis of them.

I generally like to fire the same load into a group. Let the barrel cool and then fire the next load (charge weight), into a different group. My thoughts on doing it this way is I'm able to maintain my position better firing the same load into a group.

 

[Rsadams]

With a 32gb card the lab will record 999,900 shots.... You can shoot a series then add a series and shoot your group then add a series and shoot a group etc but once you move to a new series you can't go back and add shots to a previous series.... Once you move on to the next series , the previous series is closed.... You can of course go back and review but you can't add shots...

 

[Ned Ludd]

Thanks Ned, I enjoy testing things, particularly reloading. I’m one of those people that shoots to reload. I have as much, if not more fun reloading and testing, as I do shooting. I have OCD, for real, and I just love notes and details, so the “round robin” approach gives me greater enjoyment. I can fire each shot, then take all my notes from the Labradar, then move onto the next. In the end I can do all the number crunching. I was originally just wondering what the capabilities of the Labradar were.

I am just curious though. Statistically, you believe there is no difference, to firing five shots at one load, then five at the next load, over firing the rounds “round robin”? I would think, that the later approach, would more equalize any changes that are taking place to the rifle as a result of heat and built up carbon etc. in the barrel. I’m still going to do it the “round robin” method, but was just curious on your thoughts and the basis of them.

What I believe is that nothing we do in the reloading and/or shooting process is without major bias. In fact, every single thing we do is aimed at producing the smallerst possible groups. As such, we are not looking at the same width distribution curves (i.e. sigma) that one might expect from a normal distribution. Because of that, I don't believe shooting "round robin" style really accomplishes much of anything that can be considered a statistcal "improvement", or somehow better than, simply shooting one group and then moving on to the next. Issues such as barrel heating can be addressed without resorting to using a round robin approach. If anything, I think shooting round robin style might actually make groups worse than they really should be, if for no other reason than due to the lack of continuity and/or focus associated with shooting a single group all at once. But that's just me.

My point above was simply that if you dislike the added effort of separately tabulating and analyzing the velocity data from different files because of the round robin shooting method, I don't think it would hurt you to shoot successive groups and thereby get away from having to do that.