killing groundhogs

[snert]

Might I humbly add the concept of bullet terminal ballistics? I know my 6BR with a 107 Sierra puts more energy on Mr G-hog than my 222 50 grain TNT. BUT, the TNT dumps it all inside the chuck, while the 107 dumps a bunch in the dirt behind the chuck. So I don't get too crazy about it, I just look for a bullet that delivers energy inside the chuck as best as possible at the speed it is going when it gets there. At some point it becomes academic for me, in that once I am "out there' more bullets expend energy in dirt than groundhogs....just sayin.

While we owe it to every animal a sudden death when shooting same, realize we are talking about shooting distances and wind and variables like font size when we write it up....

 

[Rem06]

I got a few GH with my atv tires. they only hold 3LB of air. i'm sot sure what that equates to in ftlb energy?
but it worked, some had a bit of help from my dog, geeze, this could go on for awhile calculating teeth pounds?

 

[K22]

I discussed the 22 250 because the poster mentioned and it's the only one of the cartridges he mentioned that I have experience with shooting ghogs. I have shot far more with a 222, 233 and in the early days, the 243. The 223 is my go to rifle for ghogs these days since the vast majority of my shots are under 250 yards where I hunt.

I've been hunting them since the late 60's, first starting with a 22 rimfire then a 243. For a time when I lived back in western PA I hunted them with a 357 magnum Model 27 S&W. In those days I was pretty good shot with a revolver. The terrain lended itself to stalking within 50 yards. I took quite a few in those days with the revolver. It was some of the most fun I ever had hunting.

I started keeping records in 2000 when I retired and since then I've shot 1,584 as of last summer. Most of which have been taken with a 223 using 50 and 55 grain Nosler BTs.

I think a more important issue than the caliber one selects to hunt ghogs or anything else for that matter is one's skill in the field to make a lethal shot at the distances they expect to hunt a specific animal.

 

[potatoe]

These threads have a tendency to become ego posts or "I've shot a hog at XXX yds and kilt it with ???" There is not any hard number you will find for killing groundhogs. You will get many opinions both very good and very subjective and everything in between. As many have said, if you use a good varmint bullet (or just about any bullet for that matter.) and put in center chest or especially head you will kill that groundhog, luck or skill.

There are two reasons I think many will go for the heavier hitters on groundhogs, one is wind defection. That is a great influence on my choice of a decent mid range groundhog caliber, as you know you don't get many second shots for groundhogs and they can be tough to anchor. The second factor is the "splat" factor which you have seen with R. Franklin's choice in groundhog guns and bullets. The high speed killers that shoot varmint bullets are specific builds and they have a short barrel life typically. KE or ft # do not always translate to a DRT hog as I have found out. I'm always on the search of that "groundhog cartridge".

My recent builds have been .284 wins and I've shot a bunch with 168 gr. berger Hunting VLD's and they will do quite well. They have great ballistics and a bc of over .6 BUTTTTT I've gut shot 2 and have had crawl aways. At the distances I shot these two I had well over 1k foot pounds of energy and blew threw them and they got back in the hole. So you can't translate foot pounds of energy as foot pounds delivered. I've slowly refined to the v-max's for one of the guns and trying on the other. But even varmint bullets will give you crawl-aways after you reach its/the cartridge's limit. I am fortunate enough to video most of my hunts so I can dissect shots that I think should have been kill shots or shots that I thought were better.

I suppose my point is don't rely on foot pounds of energy but foot pounds delivered. Also rely on a bullet/gun that you can say to yourself I can put this shot in the boiler room consistently (you can make up your own 'consistently')

 

[Webster]

given at distance of 300 to say 400 yards and the 6 mm bullets of 55 to 70 grain using varmint bullets I hear that you need 400 foot pounds of energy to be on the target or so.if you look at some of the posts I fell this may not be true. any thoughts on this?i shoot a 22 br and used 22 250s and a 6 mm ppc with sierra and custom bullets.the ranges were up to 350 yards.
gary b

400 ft-lbs is a made up number. The most important thing is a bullet that has extreme expansion on very small critters and bullet placement. Some people think a 22RF cannot kill a GH. I have shot several at 75 yds with a 22 RF in the chest and they were instantly dead. A 22 RF has about 140 ft-lbs of energy at the muzzle. 22 RF have traditionally been the favorite caliber for deer poachers. You can quickly kill a GH with a pellet gun if shot in the head. I have shot many GH at 300-325 yrds with a 58 MVax and the GH never moved an inch.

Using the Berger ballistics program I came up with the following.
68 gr Berger Match bullet 3400 fps muzzle velocity, 1641 FPS at 500 yrds. 407 ft-lbs energy.

I use 58 gr Hornady VMax, 65 Hornady VMax and 70 gr Sierra BT BlitzKing bullets. They will quickly expand at as little as 1500 fps.

 

[snert]

400 ft-lbs is a made up number. The most important thing is a bullet that has extreme expansion on very small critters and bullet placement. Some people think a 22RF cannot kill a GH. I have shot several at 75 yds with a 22 RF in the chest and they were instantly dead. A 22 RF has about 140 ft-lbs of energy at the muzzle. 22 RF have traditionally been the favorite caliber for deer poachers. You can quickly kill a GH with a pellet gun if shot in the head. I have shot many GH at 300-325 yrds with a 58 MVax and the GH never moved an inch.

Using the Berger ballistics program I came up with the following.
68 gr Berger Match bullet 3400 fps muzzle velocity, 1641 FPS at 500 yrds. 407 ft-lbs energy.

I use 58 gr Hornady VMax, 65 Hornady VMax and 70 gr Sierra BT BlitzKing bullets. They will quickly expand at as little as 1500 fps.

I have shot several with a 25 cal PCP airgun. DRT.

And it was the most amazing 1000 yard shot I ever made!

(I had to toss that out there just for internet giggles). It was 20 yards from a bedroom window.

 

[John Russell]

My first woodchuck rifle was a brand spankin' new Remington 722 in 222, with a equally brand new El Paso Weaver K-10.

That was "The" hot set up back in those days. It was considered a 200 yd. rifle on 'chucks - the 223 was considered a 225 yd rifle, and the 222 Magnum was considered a 250 yd rifle.

That was factory ammunition, which shot 50 and 55 grain bullets with 0.023" thick jackets - the same jacket thickness as bullets for the .220 Swift. And the factory bullets were what we now call "semi-pointed" bullets, with the BC of a ping-pong ball ! I got a lot of pass-throughs with that rig the first two years.

When I started hand loading, I discovered the world of special bullets, like the Speer 52gr FBHP and the Sierra SP Blitz, and the Hornady SXs (all of which had jacket thickness' of 0.009", and shattered like glass)... the world of long range chuck shooting opened up.

... and the ranges almost doubled in one season.

The point of this is, that it is not RAW foot pounds that kill, if the bullet does NOT deliver all of the energy to the woodchuck, and slips on through - it is delivered foot pounds that kill, and if you pick your calibres and bullets well, you can really reach out there (IF... you can shoot worth a poop).

 

[Hntndad]

My first woodchuck rifle was a brand spankin' new Remington 722 in 222, with a equally brand new El Paso Weaver K-10.

That was "The" hot set up back in those days. It was considered a 200 yd. rifle on 'chucks - the 223 was considered a 225 yd rifle, and the 222 Magnum was considered a 250 yd rifle.

That was factory ammunition, which shot 50 and 55 grain bullets with 0.023" thick jackets - the same jacket thickness as bullets for the .220 Swift. And the factory bullets were what we now call "semi-pointed" bullets, with the BC of a ping-pong ball ! I got a lot of pass-throughs with that rig the first two years.

When I started hand loading, I discovered the world of special bullets, like the Speer 52gr FBHP and the Sierra SP Blitz, and the Hornady SXs (all of which had jacket thickness' of 0.009", and shattered like glass)... the world of long range chuck shooting opened up.

... and the ranges almost doubled in one season.

The point of this is, that it is not foot pounds that kill, if the bullet does not match the size of woodchucks, and slips on through - it is delivered foot pounds that kill, and if you pick your calibres and bullets well, you can really reach out there (IF... you can shoot worth a poop).

Have the same 722 with weaver scope in 257 Roberts. Doubled as my deer rifle! Heard you need a bazooka to kill those though...

 

[John Russell]

"Heard you need a bazooka to kill those though..."

I think you have been listening to some of those "expurts" that talk about them, but don't shoot them...

 

[6MMsteve]

My 1st Hog gun was 22250 then went to the Swift, then 7-300 WHBY, then PAPER at 1000. now paper at 500, what a hill to fall off

 

[drags]

My 1st Hog gun was 22250 then went to the Swift, then 7-300 WHBY, then PAPER at 1000. now paper at 500, what a hill to fall off

Hi Steve, when I had a 7x300 WBY I would fire form brass by shooting groundhogs my longest kill was about 500 yards.
Drags

 

[joed49]

Might I humbly add the concept of bullet terminal ballistics? I know my 6BR with a 107 Sierra puts more energy on Mr G-hog than my 222 50 grain TNT. BUT, the TNT dumps it all inside the chuck, while the 107 dumps a bunch in the dirt behind the chuck. So I don't get too crazy about it, I just look for a bullet that delivers energy inside the chuck as best as possible at the speed it is going when it gets there. At some point it becomes academic for me, in that once I am "out there' more bullets expend energy in dirt than groundhogs....just sayin.

I agree. Where I hunt I have to worry about what is behind the groundhog so I use varmint bullets for my hunting. What I don't need is a bullet that goes through the groundhog and expends remaining energy in a cow or building. The varmint bullets prevent ricochets and that's what I use. Before this area built up it didn't matter so much, I long for those days.

 

[VaRandy]

I have had the same experience with a .17 Fireball and 25g Hornady HP @ 300 yds. Nothing spectacular just...dead. However the same load and distance striking the head IS SPECTACULAR dedogs

Interesting to see yours and others description of groundhogs hit by .17's. I shoot a .17 Mach IV and have shot them at 300 yards often. They do not return ANY thump, normally are still standing after the shot, and then appear to have a heart attack and the legs give out and they drop straight down on themselves. Tough to see where the entry was and NEVER an exit. Shake them and it sounds and feels like a milkshake inside!

 

[dedogs]

They do not return ANY thump

I don't recall saying anything about a "Thump". dedogs

 

[IdahoSharpshooter]

I like to see them airborne on impact with pieces and parts coming off on the way up. It's been mostly hi-velocity wildcats to get that done consistently. For years it was a 6-284, then my 257 Banshee, then a one season fling with an 8" twist 22-284 and the JLK 80gr VLD's pushing 3600fps.

 

[VaRandy]

I don't recall saying anything about a "Thump". dedogs

You are absolutely right. It was another post that said "Just one experience of mine, 400 yd. groundhog, .17 fireball, 29 grain Kindler Gold, facing me, chest shot, fell over, dead, heard the thump.
Shot placement. Whoever told you that is living in an alternate universe.

Definitely don't want to piss off another hogger!

 

[hogpatrol]

You are absolutely right. It was another post that said "Just one experience of mine, 400 yd. groundhog, .17 fireball, 29 grain Kindler Gold, facing me, chest shot, fell over, dead, heard the thump.
Shot placement. Whoever told you that is living in an alternate universe.

Definitely don't want to piss off another hogger!

Actually it was a "tha-wump". I hear them quite a bit at long distances and even close with a .17 HMR.

Which brings me to a story about a husband and wife sitting in church on a Sunday morning. She passes him a note stating she just cut a stinky silent fart and what should she do? He told her when she gets home to put new batteries in her hearing aid.

 

[bobinpa]

I can't begin to say how much I disagree with this statement and how far from reality I believe it to be. How was this 'theory' formulated?

What is 'enhanced lethality?' Is that like, really dead? Deader than dead? Deader than necessary?

A 338 LP makes a bigger hole in a groundhog, but a 17M4 kills just as dead. A 'hog hit in the foot with said 338 will crawl away just as quick as a foot shot with the 17. As with any cartridge, bullet placement to the vitals is vital.

Where does this stuff come from?

I couldn't agree more... Shot placement means EVERYTHING!!!!!!!!! I've gut shot more than one groundhog at 500 - 1000 yds with a 300 WSM using 208 gr AMAXs and they crawl away. Chest or head shots and they stay for the picture.....

 

[MrMajestic]

Seeing gut shot crawlers, with any cartridge, really makes a man feel terrible. Stomping on their head to finish them makes you feel worse.

 

[Hntndad]

Actually it was a "tha-wump". I hear them quite a bit at long distances and even close with a .17 HMR.

Which brings me to a story about a husband and wife sitting in church on a Sunday morning. She passes him a note stating she just cut a stinky silent fart and what should she do? He told her when she gets home to put new batteries in her hearing aid.

Absolutely hilarious! That was a good one