Ken Light Annealing Machine
- Thread starter amlevin
- Start date
I have one and use it on a regular basis. As you know, it is a bit more of a pain to use because the wheels that hold the cases need to be filled with hot water to make it work as designed. I know lots of guys don't do that, but I do and talked with Ken about it after reading his instructions and am happy to keep doing it. Ken has a good web site to explain the use of his machine.
The wheels are designed by case diameter and case length, i.e. a wheel for .30-06 is thicker than the one for 30 BR. I have three wheels for mine and use it all the time. I have never used it without the hot water. I have annealed multiple thousands of cases with it and have never had a function problem with it.
If I can give you any more info, please let me know.
The wheels are designed by case diameter and case length, i.e. a wheel for .30-06 is thicker than the one for 30 BR. I have three wheels for mine and use it all the time. I have never used it without the hot water. I have annealed multiple thousands of cases with it and have never had a function problem with it.
If I can give you any more info, please let me know.
ReedG said:
Can you expand on your talk with Ken and the rationale behind the hot water?
As for needing different wheels, I personally wouldn't see that as an obstacle. I'm one of those guys that uses the wrench that fits the bolt rather than just a crescent wrench or one of those universal do-dad's sold on TV.
I would forsee only two wheels for my needs.
The purpose of the hot water is to bring the entire case up to a moderate temperature (something less than 212F, as it is not boiling) so that it takes less time and heat to bring the necks up to proper annealing temperature. Theory being if the case is at, say, room temperature of 70F, it will take X amount of time and temperature to raise it to 695F. If the case is at, say, 190F it will take less time/temp to get to 695F.
If you have a few minutes for a "good read", Ken has one of the best treatises I've seen on annealing cartridge cases, especially using his machine.
http://www.kenlightmfg.com/cartridgecaseannealer.htm
This quote from the above article is the crux of the operation:
It should be noted that one of the purposes of the shell wheel is to preheat the case as well as provide a heat sink to keep them from being over heated. All cases should be fed into the shell wheel in the area of the feed ramp. Starting the cases too close to the flame will not give them time to preheat to 212 degrees (F).
On a bottle neck rifle case, the central portion of the flame should be on the case neck, and the outer portions of the flame will "wash" over the shoulder and down the side of the case for a short distance. As the cartridge goes around the wheel, it will turn, causing the entire periphery of the neck to be exposed to the direct flame at one time or another.
With this setup, the neck will actually reach a temperature between 750 and 800 degrees. Remember, it is time and temperature that does the job. We have raised the temperature sufficiently to be able to anneal the case necks in 6 to 8 seconds.
The shoulder will be a bit cooler than the neck, and the body cooler yet. The case head will be below 300 degrees (F), which is well below the critical temperature of 482 degrees (F) at which the first changes in grain structure can occur.
If you have a few minutes for a "good read", Ken has one of the best treatises I've seen on annealing cartridge cases, especially using his machine.
http://www.kenlightmfg.com/cartridgecaseannealer.htm
This quote from the above article is the crux of the operation:
It should be noted that one of the purposes of the shell wheel is to preheat the case as well as provide a heat sink to keep them from being over heated. All cases should be fed into the shell wheel in the area of the feed ramp. Starting the cases too close to the flame will not give them time to preheat to 212 degrees (F).
On a bottle neck rifle case, the central portion of the flame should be on the case neck, and the outer portions of the flame will "wash" over the shoulder and down the side of the case for a short distance. As the cartridge goes around the wheel, it will turn, causing the entire periphery of the neck to be exposed to the direct flame at one time or another.
With this setup, the neck will actually reach a temperature between 750 and 800 degrees. Remember, it is time and temperature that does the job. We have raised the temperature sufficiently to be able to anneal the case necks in 6 to 8 seconds.
The shoulder will be a bit cooler than the neck, and the body cooler yet. The case head will be below 300 degrees (F), which is well below the critical temperature of 482 degrees (F) at which the first changes in grain structure can occur.
Thanks for the very informative article.
Sorry but the water is not to pre-heat the case so that “it takes less time and heat to bring the neck up to proper annealing temperatureâ€. Annealing in a machine like this or in the BenchSource or Giraud for that matter (last 2 machines does not have the water pre-heat) only takes 3-5 seconds.
If you read the article in the link you send me, it says clearly “The reason for the water is that the bases of the cases must not be annealed, or even heated to any appreciable amount, for reasons you will learn about later on.â€
And BTW, it also says for those interested in reading about proper annealing temperature:" The critical time and temperature at which the grain structure reforms into something suitable for case necks is 662 degrees (F) for some 15 minutes. A higher temperature, say from 750 to 800 degrees, will do the same job in a few seconds. If brass is allowed to reach temperatures higher than this (regardless of the time), it will be made irretrievably and irrevocably too soft. Brass will begin to glow a faint orange at about 950 degrees (F). Even if the heating is stopped at a couple of hundred degrees below this temperature, the damage has been done -- it will be too soft. "
Sorry but the water is not to pre-heat the case so that “it takes less time and heat to bring the neck up to proper annealing temperatureâ€. Annealing in a machine like this or in the BenchSource or Giraud for that matter (last 2 machines does not have the water pre-heat) only takes 3-5 seconds.
If you read the article in the link you send me, it says clearly “The reason for the water is that the bases of the cases must not be annealed, or even heated to any appreciable amount, for reasons you will learn about later on.â€
And BTW, it also says for those interested in reading about proper annealing temperature:" The critical time and temperature at which the grain structure reforms into something suitable for case necks is 662 degrees (F) for some 15 minutes. A higher temperature, say from 750 to 800 degrees, will do the same job in a few seconds. If brass is allowed to reach temperatures higher than this (regardless of the time), it will be made irretrievably and irrevocably too soft. Brass will begin to glow a faint orange at about 950 degrees (F). Even if the heating is stopped at a couple of hundred degrees below this temperature, the damage has been done -- it will be too soft. "
Tim Singleton
Gold $$ Contributor
I have one and like it. Bought it used. I couldn't state my experience with it any better than ReedG
I to use it with water as it was designed. Really not that big a deal
My only grip would be the fine grit sand paper glued to the bottom of the machine. Which is what makes the cases rotate. If our not careful with flame setting you burn it. And over time it smoothes out and cases don't rotate as well
That is where I'm at, going to have to replace the sand paper on mine
I to use it with water as it was designed. Really not that big a deal
My only grip would be the fine grit sand paper glued to the bottom of the machine. Which is what makes the cases rotate. If our not careful with flame setting you burn it. And over time it smoothes out and cases don't rotate as well
That is where I'm at, going to have to replace the sand paper on mine
[br]Tsingleton said:
Use self-adhesive aluminum oxide discs. Works great on mine. Just cut out the center. [br]
http://www.abrasiveresource.com/detail_08BPD180__8nhbludisc__Blue_Paper_Adhesive_Sanding_Discs.html
I've used mine on and off for about five years now.
My issue with the sandpaper is just the heat from the torches eventually causes the glue to soften and the sandpaper bubbles up some. This stops the cases from rotating well right under the torches. This happens over years, not a short period of time. I didn't even think of sanding disks. I'll probably change mine out tonight.
It took me forever to get the torches set each time I ran the machine. This caused me to not use it very much. Just this summer I put a "T" on a BBQ 20 pound cylinder and hooked up my torches to that. Now I leave the torches set and turn on and off at the BBQ cylinder. Works great. Setup is now minutes instead of 1/2 hour.
I don't have hot water out in my shop where I load so I use a metal camping cup and just heat the water with the torches. Simple and fast.
I like mine, but will probably be selling it soon as I just don't use it that much. Keep your eyes on the sales listing.
My issue with the sandpaper is just the heat from the torches eventually causes the glue to soften and the sandpaper bubbles up some. This stops the cases from rotating well right under the torches. This happens over years, not a short period of time. I didn't even think of sanding disks. I'll probably change mine out tonight.
It took me forever to get the torches set each time I ran the machine. This caused me to not use it very much. Just this summer I put a "T" on a BBQ 20 pound cylinder and hooked up my torches to that. Now I leave the torches set and turn on and off at the BBQ cylinder. Works great. Setup is now minutes instead of 1/2 hour.
I don't have hot water out in my shop where I load so I use a metal camping cup and just heat the water with the torches. Simple and fast.
I like mine, but will probably be selling it soon as I just don't use it that much. Keep your eyes on the sales listing.
Terry
Gold $$ Contributor
I really like mine. I have done several thousand cases with it.
I do not preheat the water. It works great without doing this.
The plates and water draw heat from the cases preventing annealing too far down the case.
I removed the set screws that position the torches and replaced them with knobs that have threaded shafts.
Much easier to adjust. Cost about $2.50 for the two.
I do not preheat the water. It works great without doing this.
The plates and water draw heat from the cases preventing annealing too far down the case.
I removed the set screws that position the torches and replaced them with knobs that have threaded shafts.
Much easier to adjust. Cost about $2.50 for the two.
Terry
Gold $$ Contributor
There has been a lot said about the "proper" temperature for annealing and how to get there.
I'm a big fan of the KISS method. When the color blue runs over the shoulder that is just what I want.
Blue represents 600 degrees.
What more...
http://www.6mmbr.com/annealing.html
I'm a big fan of the KISS method. When the color blue runs over the shoulder that is just what I want.
Blue represents 600 degrees.
What more...
http://www.6mmbr.com/annealing.html
Raythemanroe
Bullet Whisperer
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Ray
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