It's So Darn FRUSTRATING!!!

[moondog]

I'm on several boards.

This one, where I get a lot of good solid info. Sniper's Hide for the PX. A couple of local ones. And others that I'm a member on but rarely check in to.
On one of the local boards, there is a guy looking for a "5.56 Bolt Gun" and 2 pages of discussion. The consensus is; If you're gonna shoot "LONG RANGE" you need a bigger/better caliber.

I compete with the .223 in mid-range FTR. It is capable of punching paper to 1K (My current load is at least). In NJ, where I live, 1K is the farthest we are getting to unless one takes a VERY long drive to somewhere else. And even so, 1K is not a short ride. Realistically most guys in the NJ Metro will shoot 300 99% of the time. And that is the farthest they will shoot.

I don't understand why, in anyone's world, they are forced to believe that to shoot past 100 yards they need a 408 CheyTac. Is it just everyone taking everyone else's word? Just dis-information being spread willy-nilly around the interwebs? I don't know why it bothers me as much as it does, but it does bother me.
I will sleep tonight, I promise.
But, it does bother me.

Rant off...[/QUOTE
You are spot on in saying most guys don't have access to Long range. Why would you build a 2000 yard + gun when you only access to 300? I don't get it either. I do have access to 2600 yards 10 min from my
house. Still, not really long enough for a Barrett or Chey. I went with a 338LM imp. but really won't shoot it
inside of 1000. We shoot 6BRA, Dasher, 6.5x47, BR out to 1000 with ease. It's the "Typers Hide"
mentality over there for the most part. I love this site for the information it provides me from people
who ACTUALLY shoot, not internet theoretical experts. I have seen more and more guys coming over
from The "other forum" to get real info here

 

[1911mag]

I am an relatively new FTR shooter. This was my second year. I choose a .223 over a .308 for a few reasons. First is most ranges near me are 600. Second I am always up for a challenge. I have had good success with my setup. I came from and still do ARA benchrest. For me I have learned more on reading wind and mirage with a .223 than if I jumped in with a .308. So now as i use a larger caliber and longer distance I look at the conditions in a different perspective. I do believe this has made me a more accomplished shooter. Each individual need to weight out what they want to accomplish and make the best decision based on the information that is out there. I made a goal to shoot my first clean at mid range in 2018. I did this twice at Sierra Cup this year while others dropped points. My next goal is to reach a Master in long range with a .223. Granted I can pick up my BRA or .284 and cut my curve down
but I enjoy the challange. Just my 2 cents worth.

 

[10XSHOOTER]

I use a Rem 700, Kreiger 1-7.7, 26". use 77 SMK's for a wind trainer at a 12" plate at 770 yds. Miss a lot more than I hit!!

 

[Bully]

Bully, where in Jersey do you shoot 1000? I was from Lake Hopatcong in north jersey where it was so wooded and hilly you would be lucky to get 200... Jim (just curious)

In Nj there’s nothing. Although one of the 2A groups is pushing for a WMA to open up a 1k range it’s so far a pipe dream.
PA and NY have 1000 with one of them being relatively close by.

 

[Lefty Trigger]

I have a friend that shoots a .223 out to a 1000yds over at Thunder Valley. He likes the challenge of it, wouldn't be my choice but he likes it. Cheap to shoot though. Currently building a 22-250 but not for 1000yds.

 

[steve123]

I'll tell you one thing that happens is the F-class guys have nice wind flags to read and they are competing against 308 which is close in performance to 223. Add in addition experienced wind coaches spotting trace, nice flat ground, and spotting discs so one can see exactly where every shot went so 223 or 308 becomes easier to make hits with in the wind.

Now us steel shooters who are out in field conditions where there are no flags or just some surveyors tape in a few places have better success with cartridges that are higher performing in the wind.

But there's this, my short AR in 223 with 70's at 2600 fps pales in comparison to my 223AI with 88's at 2816 fps, in the wind at farther distances.

Then there's my 6.5 Saum, 140 hybrids at 3175 fps. It just gets easier to hit steel when it's windy in field conditions with those ballistics, that's all there is to it.

Step it up some more, with my 30-375R, 230's at 2935 fps, it's even easier because estimating wind drift is less critical.

Yes I know, for certain stages, matches, because of the extra recoil they introduce, they aren't the best choice's.

Sorry man, I've seen it over and over again. Guys shooting both 223 and 308 standard rifles having a very tough time in the wind. It goes like this - hits left -aims right, misses right or left because of a slight change in conditions, eventually a hit occurs. I might not hit the center of the steel with a higher performing cartridge but I'm still hitting the steel most of the time in the same conditions.

Of course at medium distances both 308 and 223 are much more competitive.

In the end it's BC and fps combined that determine ease of hitting.

Average winds -Expert marksman with 223 vs newby with whatever cartridge and guess who will win. Expert against expert, 223 against whatever higher performing cartridge and you can guess that outcome.

Everything in life has compromises.

My next barrel will likely be some sort of 22 cal based off the BR case, because I like soft recoil and low component cost/consumption, also a .545BC at 3000 fps does pretty good in the wind.

 

[spaniel]

I don't understand why, in anyone's world, they are forced to believe that to shoot past 100 yards they need a 408 CheyTac. Is it just everyone taking everyone else's word? Just dis-information being spread willy-nilly around the interwebs? I don't know why it bothers me as much as it does, but it does bother me.
I will sleep tonight, I promise.
But, it does bother me.

Rant off...

Ah, the Hide...recent gems...
- Everyone must shoot an Accuracy International rifle, nothing else is worth a darn.
- Gotta have a 408 CheyTac or such if you're going to shoot 100 yards, OR, a 6.5 Creedmoor is the best choice for the same.
- But, if you're hunting deer to 200 yards, we have to make a 300 Blackout work...

 

[steve123]

Ah, the Hide...recent gems...
- Everyone must shoot an Accuracy International rifle, nothing else is worth a darn.
- Gotta have a 408 CheyTac or such if you're going to shoot 100 yards, OR, a 6.5 Creedmoor is the best choice for the same.
- But, if you're hunting deer to 200 yards, we have to make a 300 Blackout work...

Got links, or did you make this up?

On any forum there are the sheeple that have a hive mindset. Closed mindedness and herd mentality are here too. When pointing the finger, remember that most of the other fingers are pointing back in your own face.

Meh, 375CT kicks 408's ass, more so 416B is the hot ticket these days.

6.5 Creed - gets the job done just fine for PRS or NRL, though I've been using that giant cartridge called 6x47L. Never owned a Creed, but it's a good option for various reasons, mostly because it's not 308, but mainly factory ammo.

Small percentage of AI rifles on the Hide due to price, obviously most regular folk can't afford $4000+ rifles, most are safe queens and brought out of the safe to show off. But nobody can argue they aren't a reliable rifle that work in harsh conditions. I know it's hard to believe but actual Snipers use these as tools for their job.

300BO, I don't get the appeal unless there's a can involved using subsonic ammo. I guess it does outperform 9mm.

 

[Bully]

Got links, or did you make this up?

On any forum there are the sheeple that have a hive mindset. Closed mindedness and herd mentality are here too. When pointing the finger, remember that most of the other fingers are pointing back in your own face.

Meh, 375CT kicks 408's ass, more so 416B.

6.5 Creed - gets the job done just fine for PRS or NRL, though I've been using that giant cartridge called 6x47L. Never owned a Creed, but it's a good option for various reasons, mostly because it's not 308, but mainly factory ammo.

Small percentage of AI rifles on the Hide due to price, obviously most regular folk can't afford $4000+ rifles, most are safe queens and brought out of the safe to show off. But nobody can argue they aren't a reliable rifle that work in harsh conditions. I know it's hard to believe but actual Snipers use these as tools for their job.

300BO, I don't get the appeal unless there's a can involved using subsonic ammo. I guess it does outperform 9mm.

I think @spaniel ’s post is a generalization meant to be humorous.

 

[AJC]

I shoot 223 with 24.4 varget 80 gr eld-m and lapua cases to compete in steel varmint to 600. Its most likely the cheapest gun on the line and I'm about mid pack at the local range. I chose the 223 for low recoil and expense. My action is a savage so I can swap barrels at home and if I change my mind after the season I'm only out a barrel and some brass. My dad shoots 6mmbr in the same match and to be honest it's about who makes the better wind call. I would not have gone 223 if I had to shoot further but it works for me in this match.

 

[Twitchy]

I compete in F-TR and PRS with 223. It makes some people mad when the little mighty mouse round gets more hits than they do. I'm usually only 1 of 2 or 3 guys using 223 and typically get in the top 10 or top 15 out of 40-50 shooters. The only down side starts around 700-800 and the age of the RO. Calling hits in high mirage can lead to no call targets when the eyes start to go. I will say that I've been able to make match hits out to 950ish with about the same hit percentage as the bigger calibers. It's sort of funny to see the "bigger is better" guys migrating to smaller calibers. I'm seeing a lot more 6BR/Dasher/XC this past season.

 

[mao0720]

I love shooting my 223s at long range. I had a 223 ftr rifle that was stupid accurate with 90gr smk’s. I shot it at 1k frequently and it did well when the wind was very light. Now I have a 223 barrel for my bighorn Arms tl3 action. I use this barrel for training so I save rounds on my 6.5x47 barrel. I’ve been shooting the new Hornady 88gr eld-m. It’s so much fun to shoot even at 600 + yards. I’d have no problems competing with the 223 at a prs match, especially one that maxed out at 800 ish yards. Some people just don’t understand what having fun is, and need to make everything too serious. For me, I giggle every time I shoot a 1/2 MOA group at 600+ with my 223. Shoot what you enjoy.

 

[Don_Parsons]

No matter what caliber is at the line,,, it all comes together when horizontal meets Vertical at the V ring.

10% rifle, cartrage, bullets, optic... 90% shooter "if" they do thier home work.

Chasing the winds is what its all about in my world.

 

[Lefty Trigger]

300 blackout,.. fun gun. I recently acquired one through a trade on here and it's a hoot to shoot. No can for me and loading it to 1950fps with Berry's bulk bullets in 150gr made for the 30-30 they shoot awesome and the plus side,... 1000 30 caliber bullets for $90 bucks!