Issues with dirty brass after being fired from my reloaded 5.56mm

[FRFX]

Hi Guys!

Hope some of you will be able to help me out on my reloading for 5.56/.223rem. (I shoot them in my Daniel Defense M4v7s with 11.5inch barrel)

So here is the story. I'm starting to reload this caliber (already reloaded 5k round of 9mm). The issue I have is that once I shot my brass (good firing feeling, extraction and cycle) the cases I get are really dirty (see pictures).

I started with these components:
-Magtech small rifle primers
-Vitha N133 powder
-Frontier 55gr bullets (no crimping grooves on them)
Started from the lowest load data to the highest.
The cases got really really dirty in this case. I did crimped them quite a bit and had some good neck tension, and with any load it got very dirty.

So I thought that it might be a problem of too slow powder for my barrel lenght so I tried the Vitha N130 powder which is supposed to be a faster powder.

Ended up with the same issues.

Then took an even faster powder the Vectan SP10 (French brand for those who know) which is faster than N130 but slower than N120 for those who are used to Vitha powders.

It got a bit better but still no so well.

Then tried with other primers because with the magtech I felt that sometimes, when firing I noticed some delay (few milliseconds but still noticeable) between the firing pin cruching the primer and the effective shot, somthing like slow burning primers. So I tried with Geco small rifle ones, and it got again better but still not perfect (the pictures are with geco primers and SP10 powder so the best results I could get up to date.

So here is my question: what cause this? What can I do to solve this issue, knowing that when I shoot some manufactured brass (GGG, Geco, S&B) thay all get out really really clean.

Thanks in advance for your help guys.

 

[akajun]

The fouling is not that bad
Probably from manufacturing oils in the gun or leaky bolt carrier or over gassed which is common on short barrels like that getting them to run properly, my concern is that it looks like it’s chewing the rim up pretty bad. Again could be from being over gassed or a bad bolt carrier

 

[HandgunHTR]

Are you shooting suppressed?

ARs are dirty guns. You are blowing gas directly back to the BCG for cycling.
If you are getting good ejection, I wouldn’t worry about it. If you aren’t and you have an adjustable gas block, turn the gas down a touch.
If it just really bothers you and you have to solve it, try loading with CFE 223. It is a very clean shooting powder.

 

[FRFX]

Are you shooting suppressed?

ARs are dirty guns. You are blowing gas directly back to the BCG for cycling.
If you are getting good ejection, I wouldn’t worry about it. If you aren’t and you have an adjustable gas block, turn the gas down a touch.
If it just really bothers you and you have to solve it, try loading with CFE 223. It is a very clean shooting powder.

Thanks for your reply. Sorry didn't mention but this is while shooting without any suppressor.

My concern is that I don't have any dirty brass issues with brand new ammo from GGG Geco etc... they come out clean. so don't really understand why with my reloaded ammo it's like this?

 

[6bra1k]

i think the loads are to lite and maybe the gas system is not right

but the big clue is factory ammo shoots clean...so it is your ammo
skip the crimp, neck tension in std does it typically enough
can you find a known 223 powder n133 is like burning gold
2230 748
looks like more is needed
yep n133 is way to slow in this case

130 is better but with the short bbl poor burn lots of carbon

 

[358WCF]

Sooty cases could be from not enough pressure to fully expand the brass with your starting loads. Carefully increase the powder charges incrementally to see if it helps.

 

[DGP4]

Probably very dirty powder that you are using. Powder type makes a big difference in gas guns fouling. If it were light loads the necks would be dirty which they are not.

 

[karrarararararar]

Do you have a chronograph? You could compare velocities to your known good ammo.

 

[FRFX]

i think the loads are to lite and maybe the gas system is not right

but the big clue is factory ammo shoots clean...so it is your ammo
skip the crimp, neck tension in std does it typically enough
can you find a known 223 powder n133 is like burning gold
2230 748
looks like more is needed
yep n133 is way to slow in this case

130 is better but with the short bbl poor burn lots of carbon

Thanks for the reply.
Did try the N130 without any amazing results... it was better but not that by that much.

Should I try N120? even faster than 130...

 

[FRFX]

Sooty cases could be from not enough pressure to fully expand the brass with your starting loads. Carefully increase the powder charges incrementally to see if it helps.

for all the powders I've tried (N133 N130 and Vectan SP10) I always tried from low charge to the highest with no impact on this dirty issue...

 

[divingin]

Funny; I've always found N133 (and any other Viht powders I've tried) to be very clean burning. I don't shoot semi-auto, though.

 

[Coyotefurharvester]

As said chronograph the factory vs your hand loads.

 

[6bra1k]

Thanks for the reply.
Did try the N130 without any amazing results... it was better but not that by that much.

Should I try N120? even faster than 130...

while 120 will work...so will 130. and you have 130.
try working up by a tenth from where you stopped, and then another...
pressure is too low and vel is low also...
what is COAL and powder charge, what brass ??

 

[slickshot223]

Agree with others, think your powder charge needs to increase! usually start a load at the midpoint then work up, have great success!! Remember gas guns are normally dirty, but your brass seems to indicate excessive blow by!!

 

[Forum Boss]

In addition:

You may have over-lubed your cases.
You may have excess greasy lube in the chamber and on the bolt and bolt carrier.
Case lube getting into the bottom of the case (during loading) can also interfere with proper ignition.

If you are using a progressive press to throw powder there is a very good possibility that the charge is not what you think it is. Run a dozen rounds (without bullets) and then weigh the actual charges in those 12 cases.

Be cautious when loading and changing powders.

 

[shoot4fun]

I am going to take a wild guess here and say, if you are in France, that you are firing the DD suppressed.
True?
If so, that will certainly dirty up your brass, chamber, BCG and even your hands. Moderators are dirty and even more so in the AR platform. My AR 6.5 Grendel suppressed leaves empty brass so dirty it looks like it will never come clean.

 

[karrarararararar]

I am going to take a wild guess here and say, if you are in France, that you are firing the DD suppressed.
True?
If so, that will certainly dirty up your brass, chamber, BCG and even your hands. Moderators are dirty and even more so in the AR platform. My AR 6.5 Grendel suppressed leaves empty brass so dirty it looks like it will never come clean.

Thanks for your reply. Sorry didn't mention but this is while shooting without any suppressor.

Suppressor question has already been addressed

 

[Medic505]

I shoot N135 in my AR's, both rifle and pistol. Never had soot on brass like that. As someone mentioned, chronograph your load, may be on the weak or slow side.

 

[JLT]

Brass from factory loads come out clean....

I rather doubt it's the powder choice with respect to VV133. At adequate pressures and above, 133 is one of the cleanest burning powders I've ever seen. I have to agree with Forum Boss - lube left on the cases may be the culprit.

Are you tumbling your brass after sizing?

 

[Dusty Stevens]

I think you got a very dirty/oily gas system