Issue with Resizing 6XC Brass

[djones]

I've got an issue with resizing once-fired/fireformed 6XC brass that if anyone could help me with I'd appreciate it.

Equipment/Materials
H4350 powder
CCI BR2 primers
Winchester 22-250 brass
Harrells turret press
Tubb/Reading 6mmXC die
Imperial sizing wax & NECO moly case neck lubricant
T2K with barrel marked '6XC' in cursive script
Experience: 2 years reloading .223 for an AR-15

After a 9 month wait I took delivery on a new T2K a few weeks ago. I broke in the barrel using the included DTAC barrel break-in bullet set then over the next few days proceeded to fireform 500 WW 22-250 cases loaded with 107gr Sierra moly MatchKing and 37.0gr of H4350 as per the '6mmXC Information & Instructions' dated January 2004 on davidtubb.com. These cases had been resized in the Tubb/Redding 6mmXC sizing die by having the bottom of the die just touching the shellholder and the threaded portion that retains the bushing fully tightened down. The cases showed "normal" mushrooming which smoothed out once they were fired.

My issue is this: When preparing these same fireformed cases for reloading I first decapped them, re-uniformed the primer pocket, cleaned them then tried to resize them. The sizing die had just been cleaned with GunScrub and a brush then relubricated with Kroil and the case neck and shoulder lubricated with Imperial sizing wax. The case went into the die up to the point where there was about .5" protruding from the bottom at which point there was extreme resistance. By applying a *lot* of pressure on the press handle I was able to get the case all the way into the die and then back out again. I checked the die to make sure there was no dirt, media, etc stuck in it then tried another case with the same result. After removing the bushing and the threaded insert that holds the bushing in place,as well as contains the expander plut & decapping pin) I tried a 3rd case and this one nearly got stuck in the die at which point I quit. As you can see, in this 3rd attempt I had removed all components except the die body itself so I know the issue is not with the bushing or the threaded insert.
I have a piece of unfired Tubb 6XC brass that came with the 6XC tooling for my Giraud case trimmer and that case protrudes about .25" from the bottom of the die before meeting resistance,which is, I assume, normal). As I mentioned before the brass fired in my rifle protrudes about half and inch from the bottom of the die before meeting resistance and continues to do so even after being resized.

Various measurements I've taken are:

6mmXC
Location Specification Unfired Tubb Fired Tubb Fired WW
Neck dia 0.276 0.2665 0.2690 0.2730
Bottom of shoulder 0.455 0.4490 0.4540 0.4525
Mid-point of body ? 0.4555 0.4600 0.4600
Head 0.469 0.4630 0.4660 0.4620

So my question is this: Can anyone give me an idea of what I'n doing wrong here and/or what is going wrong? I never had to apply this kind of pressure to the press when resizing once-fired .223 brass - I realize that's a smaller case but still...

Any and all advice/comments appreciated.

Doug

 

[mikecr]

I had similar issues with the 6xc die and 3rd time fired brass from a T2K. I believe the die poorly matches the chamber, and 'wedges' the shoulder badly. I had a case completely jam. My fix was a new die made by JLC,from a fired case), a larger press than my Harrel's turret,for shoulder bumping), and use of RCBS case lube II pad,rather than sizing wax). Previous to this, I reloaded for years with 6br and 223, and never had anything give me a problem. 6xc should be no more difficult really. But it initially kicked my butt!
Good luck

 

[Forum Boss]

When preparing these same fireformed cases for reloading I first decapped them, re-uniformed the primer pocket, cleaned them then tried to resize them. The sizing die had just been cleaned with GunScrub and a brush then relubricated with Kroil and the case neck and shoulder lubricated with Imperial sizing wax.

Unless I am misunderstanding you, the body of the case,from shoulder to extractor groove), was not lubed??

If that was the situation, I think nearly any FL resizing die would stick.

Also, some reloaders believe you should lube the neck and body, but NOT the shoulder, of the case.

I use Ballistol for 6BR sizing case lube, and lube the body, body-shoulder radius, and the neck very lightly. Ballistol is very slippery and is much easier to clean off than most lubes. It's also non-toxic.

 

[djones]

Thanks very much for the replies. In answer to the question about case lube - yes you are correct that I was only lubricating the neck and shoulders. I just tried resizing this time lubricating,with Imperial) 2 different ways - 1) the entire length of the case from mouth to groove and 2) the neck and then the body from the bottom of the shoulder downwards. Unfortunately neither method helped my situation - I was unable to get the case completely into the die and pulling it back out took both hands on the press handle and a lot of grunting,followed by relief that it actually came out and wasn't stuck in the die).
I will place an order for Ballistol tonight but I notice it's a spray product. If this is the case do you use the aerosol or the pump spray and what method do you use to control where the spray goes,ie not everywhere).

It really does seem that the chamber and the die dimensions are significantly different as mikecr suggests - I'll contact JLC and see what they can do for me and look into buying a press with better leverage,F-B Co-Ax or Redding Big Boss)as I'm concerned about what kind of damage I might be doing to my Harrells press.

Any other opinions or suggestions welcome.

Doug

 

[Forum Boss]

Doug,

If you've lubed the case body effectively and you STILL can't move the case in/out of the die without great difficulty, then yes I'd say you've got a mismatch between the die and the chamber. From the photo it also looks like the die is working the case body pretty heavily.

What you could do is send the die to JLC Precision and have him hone the insides to match your cases. Send him 3 cases that have been fired at least 3 times and then left unsized.

Re Ballistol, I like it because it is clear and easy to clean up but it won't magically solve a problem you're having with Imperial lube which is more than decent in this role. Yes I use the spray version of Ballistol. I either spray it on a patch and rub that on the case,this also cleans the neck), or I just spray some on my fingers every 3-4 cases and then just roll the case to be lubed on my fingers for a few seconds. Either method works.

The nice thing is that the normal handling of the case after sizing tends to remove the Ballistol. Or you can just use a paper towel before shooting--no tumbling or solvents required.

But bottom line, if the case sticks with an application of Imperial on body and neck, there is an issue. The banding visible in the third picture above also suggest some issues with the reamer or the chambering job.

 

[djones]

Doug,
<snip> The banding visible in the third picture above also suggest some issues with the reamer or the chambering job.

Do you mean the alternating light and dark stripes up near the shoulder? Can you expand on what sort of issues there might be?

I'm tempted to ask McBros for a replacement barrel because if there is indeed a quality issue with the chamber I'm reluctant to be spending additional money having sizing dies modified/created to work around the issue.

Opinions anyone?

Doug

 

[Forum Boss]

When you see bands like that on a fired, sized case, assuming the die is properly finished, it means there are high/low points in the chamber. This can be caused by a reamer whose cutting blades aren't finished right, or by a reamer that chattered, or it can be caused by various smithing issues such as not flushing out the chips during finish reaming. A good smith can explain this in greater detail. Often the solution is just a little gentle polishing of the chamber with some Flitz on a patch on a tight-fitting dowel. But with a really "ace" chambering job, you won't see that kind of banding on a sized case.

 

[1shot]

IMHO, by the looks of the 3rd picture it is most definitely a chambering issue. My 6XC chamber was cut with a Hendrickson,sic)? reamer and my W-W cases re-size with no more effort than my 223 cases do using Imperial sizing die wax, Redding dies and Redding T7 turret press. I would be on the phone to McBros. if it were me.
Hope this helps,
1shot

 

[djones]

I talked to Ron at McBros this afternoon and have made arrangements to send the rifle back which I will do tomorrow to have not only the apparent chamber/die mismatch looked at but also an issue with the buttstock extension being so tight a fit that even after lubricating it I can't pull it off the receiver without wedging the receiver between my knees and using both hands to work the buttstock off.

Thanks everyone for your comments and let me know if you have any more. I'll keep you updated on what happens with McBros.

Doug

 

[djones]

I sent the rifle, die & several examples for fired/sized and fired/unsized brass to McBros for their analysis. I got a call back from Don Hagerman,sp?), the lead gunsmith who informed me that the die was bad and that the manufacturing process on the die had not been completed. He had by that time already contacted SSS on my behalf to report the problem and has by now arranged to send my die back and receive a replacement. Once he gets the replacement die he will QA & test it for me as well as take my rifle out and run some rounds through it. Once he's satisfied that everything's matching & happy he will then send everything back to me.

As for my issue with the buttstock extension being very difficult to remove, according to him if it's any looser the accuracy of the rifle will suffer as a result so I guess I'll leave well enough alone. I'm still puzzled by the ease with which David Tubb is able to pull the buttstock off on his DVDs but since I haven't yet decided whether or not I want to invest another $1200 in 2 more buttstocks,this would be to have a total of 3 that are adjusted for each position offhand/sitting/prone) this won't affect me much at this point anyway.

I also ended up buying a F-B Co-Ax to do sizing with rather than continuing to beat up my Harrels.

That's the situation so far,

Doug

 

[mikecr]

Great job!
It took so long to get my T2K that I couldn't bring myself to sending any of it out. Probably what I should have done though. As I couldn't get anyone to believe there was a problem.
I coated my buttstock fit with 'Action Magic' sold at Brownells. It's a 2 part moly burnishing that solved the problem while keeping the tight fit. The stuff works great on bolt lugs too. I use it instead of grease to keep things clean.