Is the Berger 185 BTLR target bullet same as Juggernaught OTM Tactical

[RDavies]

I see there are 2 different BTHP Berger 185gn 30 Cals. What is the difference between the 2? I see they both have the same BC. Is one just a thin jacket and the other a thick jacket?

 

[memilanuk]

Same bullet, changed name & p/n for marketing reasons.

 

[RDavies]

Good, Thanks for this Monte.

 

[coreydelong]

The 185g OTM Jauggernaut is a different p/n than the 185g LRBT Jauggernaut and not the same bullet.

I believe the bullet you want is the 185 GR MATCH TARGET BT LONG RANGE... which is p/n 30418 and is to be re-named the Jauggernaut (not Jauggernaut OTM Tactical which is p/n 30107).

Read the difference between the Match 30418 and the Tactical 30107 here-

http://www.bergerbullets.com/Information/Lines%20and%20Designs.html

 

[Heman]

They are the same bullet. I asked Bryan up at Lodi about this. He said that with their old naming structure bullets get categorized for certain uses. However many of the bullets such as the 185 have many uses, hense the name change. Same bullet just 185gr LRBT is the old name, 185gr Juggernaught is the new name.

 

[coreydelong]

The old 185g LRBT and the new 185g Jauggernaut will retain the same p/n- 30418.

The 185g OTM is not the same bullet with the 30107 p/n.

 

[DennisH]

The 185g OTM Jauggernaut is a different p/n than the 185g LRBT Jauggernaut and not the same bullet

The old 185g LRBT and the new 185g Jauggernaut will retain the same p/n- 30418.

The 185g OTM is not the same bullet with the 30107 p/n.

I called Berger (my supplier did, I was listening in) and was told three times that all three bullet labels are one and the same bullet. The exact reason given is just as stated below! Strickly marketing purposes. The LRBT, the Jauggernaut, and the OTM - All the same bullet

Same bullet, changed name & p/n for marketing reasons.

Just check the spec's out and measure if necessary. I have used both with the same results!

 

[effendude]

This is such great news.
Now, when people ask me what I shoot, I can tell them a special 184.97 grain, length to ogive sorted, Berger Jauggernaut OTM Tactical Long Range Boattail bullet, in neck turned Lapua Palma cases, with a Wolf Small Rifle Magnum primer, and 43.9 grains of Hodgen Varget lot number 3128762. I used to have to add "out of a Krieger 5r, 1-10" twist, standard Palma countoured 30 inch barrel chambered with the 95 Palma reamer, but with special throating, screwed into a Barnard P action, bedded into a McGee F-TR laminated stock, all topped with a Nightforce 12-42x Benchrest scope". Not anymore.

After hearing the word Jauggernaut, they will be so lost, they will never ask again! ;D

Scott

 

[memilanuk]

Corey,

I'm curious why you're so adamant about them being different...?

One fellow talked with the guy who designs the things, and he said they are the same bullet.

The person who picked my order up direct from the factory and spent some time talking with the folks there gave me the information that I posted. They said the bullets were the same, and were being shipped interchangeably to fill orders because they were *the same*.

Then we have DennisH's post...

On top of that, I just happen to have a couple bullets left from my last box marked 'BT Target Long Range 30 Cal 185 Grain PN: 30418 Lot # 3069' to compare with the ones I have in boxes marked 'Juggernaut OTM Tactical 30 Cal 185 Grain PN: 30107 Lot # 4031'...

Lets see... same weight... same listed BC... same measured OAL... same bearing surface length... same base-to-ogive length...

What am I missing here?

Monte

 

[DennisH]

Lets see... same weight... same listed BC... same measured OAL... same bearing surface length... same base-to-ogive length...

Exactly

They gave me the reason for the "OTM", it's strickly a marketing issue. One of the departments needed this name to satisfy department requirements.

OTHERWISE, they are the same! I talked to their sales rep at length about this as I was about to enter a 2 day regional and the only thing available was the OTM's. By the way, I place 3rd with the OTM's!

 

[Easygoose]

Scott,
Hilarious

 

[amlevin]

Same bullet, changed name & p/n for marketing reasons.

Reminds me of when I worked for an Oil Company. Was assigned to a Terminal administrative position while recovering from a severe motorcycle accident.

This company had a huge tank in the tank farm that lead to a valve on the "Rack". The valve had four labels on it, Kerosene, Stove Oil, #1 Diesel, and Turbine Fuel. They decided that since they were all similar in composition, they'd just stock the product that met the most stringent specifications and then dispense it from the same valve. Each "product" had different prices but unless you worked in the Terminal or Billing Department, nobody knew about the practice.

Some people prefer a bullet that has "Tactical" in it's name, others will shun the same product. Some require the designation "Match" or they won't touch it. Seems like someone at Berger has discovered my old employers tactic.

Have also seen it used on Car Batteries. Same basic battery, just different label that denoted a different warranty period that the Customer paid more for.

 

[DennisH]

Seems like someone at Berger has discovered my old employers tactic.

As stated above, I talked to Berger three times about these bullets. A gov department had to have the "OTM" on the label. Berger didn't want to do it, but wanted the contract!

I think everybody is happy now! Bad part, I was getting ready to shoot a regional match and couldn't find any LRBT's. The store had 10 boxes of the OTM's in stock. When Berger found this out, they personally called me and told me to use the OTM's as they are one and the same as the old LRBT's!

 

[300 RUM]

Seems like someone at Berger has discovered my old employers tactic.

As stated above, I talked to Berger three times about these bullets. A gov department had to have the "OTM" on the label. Berger didn't want to do it, but wanted the contract!

I think everybody is happy now! Bad part, I was getting ready to shoot a regional match and couldn't find any LRBT's. The store had 10 boxes of the OTM's in stock. When Berger found this out, they personally called me and told me to use the OTM's as they are one and the same as the old LRBT's!

Agreed they are the exact same.

straight from Berger They are the same bullet, OTM (open tip match)

 

[DennisH]

I see there are 2 different BTHP Berger 185gn 30 Cals. What is the difference between the 2? I see they both have the same BC. Is one just a thin jacket and the other a thick jacket?

What RDavies is speaking of is totally different. You have the VLD 185 BTHP Match bullets (thick jacket), and you also have the (orange box) 185 gr Match Grade VLD BTHP (thin jacket) Hunting bullet.

I am sure Berger is going to keep the hunting bullets, I don't know about the future of the VLD 185 BTHP VLD Match bullets. But both of these bullets "ARE" different than the 2 Juggernaught's which are similiar to a Hybird bullet. The Juggernaught's (BTLR's) are "NOT" VLD's.

Berger has made the 185 line of bullets interesting at this very moment!

Again, this is after several covnersations with Berger as "many" are confused and want to make sure they are getting the bullet they want!

 

[LRCampos]

.

I am taking a look on the 185gr. Bergers as I plan to start using it in a few weeks and was confused with so many options.

From what I could read on Berger website, there are the 185gr. bullets they have (less the hunting bullets):


- Long Range Boat tail (#30418) with BC .560/.283 (G1 and G7);

- VLD Target (#30413) with BC .549/.281;

- Hybrid (#30424) with BC .569/.291;

- Juggernaut (#30107) with BC .560/.283.


Now, I see clearly that the Juggernaut (#30107) and the LRBT (#30418) are the same bullet.

And I am trying to have some Hybrid (#30424) to see how it works...


LRCampos.

 

[dreever]

LRCampos,

The hybrids are a long bullet. If you plan on single loading it might not be an issue. In my .308 which I mag feed I'm restricted to an OAL of 2.885. The hybrids didn't work for me because of this. I use the LRBT.

Danny

 

[LRCampos]

Danny, thanks for your advice!

I intend to use the 185gr. on F-Class F/TR, so it will be single loaded.

For magazine I use the excellent Berger 175gr. LRBT up to 1.000 meters and it arrives on target just fine.


LRCampos.

 

[DennisH]

The Juggernaught's 185's "are" replacing the 185 LRBT's, FYI

As per my conversations with Berger, the catalogs and so forth are being changed to reflect the above. In fact, no retailer or anyone can order LRBT's unless they have some leftovers in stock somewhere!

As stated, there is still a lot of confusion about the new bullet "names".

 

[300 RUM]

My suggestion to all with questions or disbelief's on Berger bullets call they here is the number 714-447-5422, believe me it's allot easier