Is the 204 Ruger on its Death Bed?

[John Russell]

Over the years I've owned a couple 204 Ruger but it seems they always got sent down the road and that money spent on more 223 Rem. equipment. The 204 Ruger I have had were extremely accurate and it is a very capable cartridge.
I've noticed many 204 Ruger and reloading equipment for sale lately. I think the fact that it is very difficult to get Winchester Brand brass may be part of the problem. What is your opinion? Do you feel the 204 Ruger is on its demise?

I had two 204's and let them both go "down the road"... they were lackluster.
I built a 20 Tac with a 10" Twist barrel and I like it a lot.

I think one of the big handicaps to the 204 is the 12" twist barrel. The factory rifles should have gone with a 10" twist.

 

[fredhorace77]

I had two 204's and let them both go "down the road"... they were lackluster.
I built a 20 Tac with a 10" Twist barrel and I like it a lot.

I think one of the big handicaps to the 204 is the 12" twist barrel. The factory rifles should have gone with a 10" twist.

You could be very right. Isn't that what held back the 6MM compared to the .243? The differences in twist rate?

 

[Ledd Slinger]

Ive had a custom 20 VT. Good little round, but nothing special. I built it expecting a lot less recoil than my 204R to watch hits on ground squirrels up close, but that wasn't the case. The 20 VT has more recoil than most might think. Sold it because fireball brass is expensive, hard to find, and usually not very good quality. Made some brass from 223, but that was a lot more work than I wanted to deal with. So off she went.

For ultimate low recoil, I have a 20 Ackley Hornet. Can watch all the shots, but nowhere near the speed and power of my 204R. So that's the trade off.

I recently built a 20 TAC so I can use 223 brass. Accurate and fast, but not 'better' than my 204R. Similar recoil and speeds, just that 223 brass is more available and there are more brand options so it's more convenient.

Regardless of what anyone thinks of the 204 Ruger, it is one hell of a round that will leave the 223 in the dust with any similar weight bullet. Trying to claim a 223 is a similar ballistic match to the 204 Ruger is like trying tell folks Tyrannosaurus Rex still roams the earth. It just isn't true. As far as accuracy? I would pit my custom 204 Ruger against any other wildcat 20 cal rifle out there and I'm sure it would give them on hell of a run for their money at 300 to 600 yards.

One thing to remember is that even tho the 204 Ruger may not be as exciting and unique as it was when it very first hit the market, it is still the one and only cartridge that sparked the 20 cal craze. I absolutely love my 20 cal rifles and I know I probably wouldn't have paid attention to 20 cals if it wasn't for the fast success of the 204 Ruger. I like 20 cals so much that i dont even own a 17 or 22 cal center fire rifle. So I gotta say my hats off to Hornady and Ruger for designing such an excellent cartridge. I know I'm hooked on 20 cal and probably always will be. I guess my way of showing respect to the cartridge that started it all is to make sure I always have a 204 Ruger tucked away in my safe.

 

[John Russell]

You could be very right. Isn't that what held back the 6MM compared to the .243? The differences in twist rate?

Yup - the 244 had a 12" twist, cuz Rem saw it as a varmint rifle, and Winchester made a 10 twist cuz they saw it as a dual purpose rifle.

Rem should have just changed the twist to 9, and did nothing else, and the 243 would have died - but they renamed the round as the 6mm Rem... at a time that America was not having anything to do with metric cartridges - it was the renaming that killed the 244 Rem.
Just like the 7mm Remington Express - it quickly died on the vine and was discontinued... only to magically re-emerge as the 280 Rem a short time later, and it was/is a success.

 

[SS427]

Ledd Slinger - we seem to agree on optics but have a difference in opinion in calibers. You must have sold your 20VT before Lapua came out with parent brass for it. I refused to invest in a 20VT until they did, and I have zero regrets. It is hands down my favorite caliber to shoot, at targets and in the sage rat fields. I do agree it has more recoil than a lot of people will lead you to believe but it has quite a bit less than the 204 Rugers I have shot. 18 grains of power vs 25 grains or more simply means less recoil. I'm having a 20VT heavy varmint built this winter and I hope to see more hits than not.

Your T-Rex story doesn't hold water. A Ruger 204 with 40 grain bullets leaves the muzzle at 3,900 fps and the .223 with 40 grain bullets leave the muzzle at 3,800 fps - Hornady data off their website. Next spring I will poll the sage rats and see if they think it would be worth investing the money in dies to reload .204 Ruger for an extra 100 fps. With 32 grain bullets your story makes more sense but to me still not worth the money I would spend on dies.

.204 Ruger is a great caliber...I do agree with you on that.

 

[fredhorace77]

Ive had a custom 20 VT. Good little round, but nothing special. I built it expecting a lot less recoil than my 204R to watch hits on ground squirrels up close, but that wasn't the case. The 20 VT has more recoil than most might think. Sold it because fireball brass is expensive, hard to find, and usually not very good quality. Made some brass from 223, but that was a lot more work than I wanted to deal with. So off she went.

For ultimate low recoil, I have a 20 Ackley Hornet. Can watch all the shots, but nowhere near the speed and power of my 204R. So that's the trade off.

I recently built a 20 TAC so I can use 223 brass. Accurate and fast, but not 'better' than my 204R. Similar recoil and speeds, just that 223 brass is more available and there are more brand options so it's more convenient.

Regardless of what anyone thinks of the 204 Ruger, it is one hell of a round that will leave the 223 in the dust with any similar weight bullet. Trying to claim a 223 is a similar ballistic match to the 204 Ruger is like trying tell folks Tyrannosaurus Rex still roams the earth. It just isn't true. As far as accuracy? I would pit my custom 204 Ruger against any other wildcat 20 cal rifle out there and I'm sure it would give them on hell of a run for their money at 300 to 600 yards.

One thing to remember is that even tho the 204 Ruger may not be as exciting and unique as it was when it very first hit the market, it is still the one and only cartridge that sparked the 20 cal craze. I absolutely love my 20 cal rifles and I know I probably wouldn't have paid attention to 20 cals if it wasn't for the fast success of the 204 Ruger. I like 20 cals so much that i dont even own a 17 or 22 cal center fire rifle. So I gotta say my hats off to Hornady and Ruger for designing such an excellent cartridge. I know I'm hooked on 20 cal and probably always will be. I guess my way of showing respect to the cartridge that started it all is to make sure I always have a 204 Ruger tucked away in my safe.

I understand what you are saying. I feel the same way about my 17HMR. I have had several 22Mags over the years and they are great guns and it's an amazing round. But for the type of shooting I do the 17HMR just puts a huge grin on my face. I've taken several Groundhogs with that round at 75 yards and under and it just hammers.... and the recoil and noise...or should I say lack there of...its just a cartridge that fits me perfectly.

 

[ratbuster]

I don't think it will die and go away since it is the only mainstream factory .20 caliber out there. The non-reloaders will keep it alive.

I think there are better .20 caliber choices though for a variety of reasons. The 20VT is close to the .204 Ruger performance with all sorts of advantages. The 20 Practical could be the ultimate common sense .20 caliber since you can use .223 dies and there is abundant Lapua parent brass available.

I never owned a .204 Ruger for the same reason drover gave. A 40 grain bullet in a .223 is close to a ballistic match.

If you compare a .224 40gn Vmax to a .204 Vmax, both at 3850 fps at 400 yards the 20 cal drifts 6" less in a 10 mph wind and it drops 4" less than the .224. It gets worse the farther you go. That is ballistically very significant to me.

 

[Silverfox]

There are three .204 Rugers in my varmint/predator arsenal and while I have given serious consideration to converting one of them to a 20VT, that hasn't happened yet. I have spent lots of $$$ working up loads for these 3 rifles and adding the 20VT means more $$$ for load development.

Two of them were chambered with the same reamer. I have quite a bit of time and money invested in dies and tuning them to the rifles and the thought of buying more dies for the 20VT isn't very inviting.

There IS excellent brass available, but it is a bit more expensive than WW, Remington, and a bit more than Hornady brass, BUT I have found both Nosler and Norma brass to be EXCELLENT .204 Ruger brass.

If I didn't already have three excellent shooting .204 Rugers, I would definitely consider the .20 Practical and/or the 20VT.

 

[Ledd Slinger]

If you compare a .224 40gn Vmax to a .204 Vmax, both at 3850 fps at 400 yards the 20 cal drifts 6" less in a 10 mph wind and it drops 4" less than the .224. It gets worse the farther you go. That is ballistically very significant to me.

Yes it does get worse downrange as the 20 cal 40gr vmax flies flatter with a .275 BC vs the 22 cal 40gr vmax .200 BC.

But let's change that comparison out to reveal real world perfromance using my personal 204R load with the 20 cal 39gr Sierra BlitzKing (.287 BC) at 4100 fps vs your 22 cal 40gr Vmax at 3850fps. And the winner is?...

Dumming down the performance of one round while maxing out the speeds of another is no comparison at all.

Kind of like comparing the 7mm Ultra Mag and the 30-30 winchester both using 150gr bullets at 2000 fps? Granted, that's a bit exaggerated, but you get my point.

 

[Ledd Slinger]

Ledd Slinger - we seem to agree on optics but have a difference in opinion in calibers. You must have sold your 20VT before Lapua came out with parent brass for it. I refused to invest in a 20VT until they did, and I have zero regrets. It is hands down my favorite caliber to shoot, at targets and in the sage rat fields. I do agree it has more recoil than a lot of people will lead you to believe but it has quite a bit less than the 204 Rugers I have shot. 18 grains of power vs 25 grains or more simply means less recoil. I'm having a 20VT heavy varmint built this winter and I hope to see more hits than not.

Your T-Rex story doesn't hold water. A Ruger 204 with 40 grain bullets leaves the muzzle at 3,900 fps and the .223 with 40 grain bullets leave the muzzle at 3,800 fps - Hornady data off their website. Next spring I will poll the sage rats and see if they think it would be worth investing the money in dies to reload .204 Ruger for an extra 100 fps. With 32 grain bullets your story makes more sense but to me still not worth the money I would spend on dies.

.204 Ruger is a great caliber...I do agree with you on that.

Yeah I built my 20 VT back before most folks had ever heard of it and sold it before Lapua started making the brass. It had less recoil than my 204, but not what I expected. Tho surprisingly good speeds for such a small round. 20 VT is definitely an excellent 20 caliber choice. I may build another one someday and put it on a heavier platform to get my desired results with low recoil.

Now don't get me wrong, I love my 204 Ruger, but I'm not partial to it over my other 20 cals. The ground squirrels and prairie dogs go SPLAT from all of them and I have fun shooting them all. Im just pointing out that the 204 Ruger will never be on a death bed with me. I love that round and always will

 

[drover]

Yes it does get worse downrange as the 20 cal 40gr vmax flies flatter with a .275 BC vs the 22 cal 40gr vmax .200 BC.

But let's change that comparison out to reveal real world perfromance using my personal 204R load with the 20 cal 39gr Sierra BlitzKing (.287 BC) at 4100 fps vs your 22 cal 40gr Vmax at 3850fps. And the winner is?...

Dumming down the performance of one round while maxing out the speeds of another is no comparison at all.

Kind of like comparing the 7mm Ultra Mag and the 30-30 winchester both using 150gr bullets at 2000 fps? Granted, that's a bit exaggerated, but you get my point.

Have you chronographed your 204 at 4100 fps? If you are truly attaining 4100 fps with 39/40's you are running seriousl overpressures.
Using published max load data from multiple sources I have never been able to attain more than a chronographed 3800 out of any of my 204's with 39/40 gr bullets. I cannot find any reloading data showing the 39/40 gr bullets at 4100 out of a 204, where did you get the data? It appears as though you are confusing the 39/40 gr speeds with the 30/32 gr speed.

As far as performance out to 300 yds the 204 and the 223 with 39/40's are near ballistic twins. After three hundred yards the 204 begins to show an edge in performance due to its better ballistic coefficient. However if you are using either them for varminting it really doesn't have that much effect since in the real world the great majority of varminting is within 300 yds anyway.

I still own a couple of 204's but came to the realization a long time ago that there is no magic to it.

drover

 

[SS427]

I've never understand the argument of it drops this much less or drifts that much more...as long as you know it drops or drifts X amount consistently. You have to use the same equation to figure out how many clicks up, down, left or right you have go. Or how much to hold over or into the wind. The only difference is the value of X that equates to a different amount of clicks or degree of hold.

In the end it doesn't matter because all of the calibers discussed are really good. If I had started with a .204 Ruger that is what I would be shooting.

 

[K22]

Each to his own but I never saw the need for the 204 Ruger. For me the 223 with 50 or 55 grain bullets does everything I need for this class of cartridge.

 

[ratbuster]

Yes it does get worse downrange as the 20 cal 40gr vmax flies flatter with a .275 BC vs the 22 cal 40gr vmax .200 BC.


But let's change that comparison out to reveal real world perfromance using my personal 204R load with the 20 cal 39gr Sierra BlitzKing (.287 BC) at 4100 fps vs your 22 cal 40gr Vmax at 3850fps. And the winner is?...
Dumming down the performance of one round while maxing out the speeds of another is no comparison at all.
Kind of like comparing the 7mm Ultra Mag and the 30-30 winchester both using 150gr bullets at 2000 fps? Granted, that's a bit exaggerated, but you get my point.

Ledd Slinger:

I was not comparing a 20P to a 204R. I was comparing a 20P 40 grain to a 223 40 grain which Otter stated to be ballistically comparable to each other. Indeed the 204R with it's slightly more case capacity can run a bit faster than the 20P but it is not 250 fps faster. I can run my 20P safely at 4000fps but in the interest of brass life I choose not to.

 

[ratbuster]

I've never understand the argument of it drops this much less or drifts that much more...as long as you know it drops or drifts X amount consistently. You have to use the same equation to figure out how many clicks up, down, left or right you have go. Or how much to hold over or into the wind. The only difference is the value of X that equates to a different amount of clicks or degree of hold.

In the end it doesn't matter because all of the calibers discussed are really good. If I had started with a .204 Ruger that is what I would be shooting.

That's why they make chocolate and vanilla. Even at only 300 yards the 223 40 gn Vmax drifts 9" with a 10mph wind vs. 6" for the 20 P. If the only thing I had to shoot was a 223 then I would but why live with lower performance when I don't have to? Personally I want to shoot squirrels at 500 yards (or farther) when conditions present themselves and I want the absolute best tool for the job.

 

[snert]

Not everybody enjoys the same thing, but I hope that it stays around, as well as the others.

I don`t want to see our hobby / past time diminished in any way, including the demise of caliber choices.

Some like chocolate, some vanilla, still others prefer strawberry....

Blondes brunettes redheads...icecream makes you fat

 

[tjtjwdad]

I had two 204's and let them both go "down the road"... they were lackluster.
I built a 20 Tac with a 10" Twist barrel and I like it a lot.

I think one of the big handicaps to the 204 is the 12" twist barrel. The factory rifles should have gone with a 10" twist.

IIRC, the 204 was designed around the 32 grain pill where the 1-12 works well but I do agree that a 1-11 offers a lot more versatility with the 39/40 gain bullets.

 

[tjtjwdad]

I don't know what 204's you folks are using but I can see spalt in all three of my 204's; two Remington 700 Varmint rigs and one CZ-527 American. I use 39 SBK with 28 grains of RL-15 with a Rem 7 1/2 primer. When re-barell time comes I'll opt for a 1-11 for my 204's.

My 20VT is even better but mine is new and I have Lapua 221 FB brass brass and it too is on a Rem 700 Varmint 17 Fireball platform.

As far as 223 vs 204; well they both have their advantages. There are certainly more options with the 223 but there are some of the same for the 204 as well but one needs to remember the specific application for the specific combination.

I have both, can't go wrong with that.

 

[mikeinct]

I don't think you guys can write the obit for the 204R just yet. one good friend got a 204R Savage cast off barrel & dies for dirt..Thanks to one of you guys here..He Bob, knows I love my pac-nor barreled Sako Varmint in Tac 20 ..Well, it might not look that cool his "Custom" 20 cal. but that rifle stays w me out to 500M. It shoots like a laser..He uses the Berger 40gr, I shoot the Sierra 39gr. Those 20 caliber pills puts my old Fav. the 22-250 shooting a 55grain into retirement. Groundhogs fear us...Mike in Ct who hunts in Pa.

 

[Hippy]

I fought the 20 Cal "Bug" for quite a few years and then found one in a Remington XR-100 been reloading for 40 + years and have NEVER found a easier caliber to work Accurate loads for. At the time 204 Brass was like Unicorns so I had it rechambered to 20 Practical both chamberings shot consistent 3/8" groups. It was stolen from my Apartment in 2015 and after looking for almost a year I found a replacement . Using the same loads as the original rifle it too shoots 3/8's consistently I have now accumulated 500 plus rounds of 204 Brass and will likely keep it as is.
The MOST impressive thing about the 20 cal's IMHO they seem to defy Gravity when 1st shooting it was hard not to overshoot the Groundhogs having shoot mostly 22 Cals 22-250,AI and Cheetah in the past.

Jim