Is Palma D.O.A.?

[farmergreg]

Posting this tongue in cheek sorta!

Warner sights? Get on the list to buy new....when?
Phoenix.... was shocked to see they're out of production also.
Rightsight? Done.

Post any of the above for sale and they're gone in 60 seconds.

Last week my 19 y/o son bought a barreled action and placed it in borrowed stock and Riles front from a fellow palma shooter for the time being.
We were lucky enough to buy a Warner #2 in the process.

How can we "grow" the sport if the suppliers keep dropping out?

ps: How many front rests are made for F-class?

 

[clowdis]

I will admit that Palma is a small community, but it isn't dead. There is a need for sights and other parts but as a business there just isn't enough quantity there to keep a manufacturer going. There are other options for rear sights such as PNW, RPA or Centra, but you may have to order Internationally. Scott Riles has you covered on front sights. I'll agree that Warner rear sights are the best but there aren't going to be any more and it certainly doesn't seem like the British need Warners to beat us every 4 years. So, don't think Palma is dying because of a lack of equipment support, it isn't, you just have to look a little harder and get used to using what other countries are using.

 

[corning]

you just have to look a little harder and get used to using what other countries are using.

+1

 

[clowdis]

Posting this tongue in cheek sorta!

ps: How many front rests are made for F-class?

F-class being a relatively new division has seen a lot of development in the last 10 years. Bipods, stocks, and scopes that were fine then just won't make the grade now, so shooters continue to buy the latest and greatest until development peaks. I expect to see older bipods start to fall away in the near future as shooters move up.

 

[MGYSGT]

I know a fellow who used to own a gunshop. He has a bunch of high end iron sight for Palma. He listed them on here for sale and didn't sell a single one. That may be why they are not made any longer.

 

[corning]

I know a fellow who used to own a gunshop. He has a bunch of high end iron sight for Palma. He listed them on here for sale and didn't sell a single one. That may be why they are not made any longer.

Is the post still active? A link to it would help some folks...

 

[farmergreg]

Is the post still active? A link to it would help some folks...

Remember original post is "tongue in cheek"

But the quoted post above kind of proves my point. Sort of like joining a secret society.

"Ya wanna build a rifle? I know a guy who knows a guy who might be able to get you the best sights"

(If you see the listing within 60 seconds and beat someone else out)

 

[watercam]

Is the post still active? A link to it would help some folks...

Here you go:

http://forum.accurateshooter.com/th...ght-misc-lr-sights-rails-warne-rings.3947279/

 

[Mr. Ten-X]

Is it DOA?

Well, a good friend used to be pretty busy building prone rifles of all types, including a fair number of Palma rifles. I had put the question to him some time back as well as to another prominent gunsmith from Albuquerque regarding "new" builds specific to Palma. Numbers of new builds and rebarreling of them are off "significantly" from what they were between 1992 and 2005.

 

[jim1903a1]

Hey Greg, keep Alex going. He's an outstanding young man and the future of the sport. Hope he can influence some of his peers to get into the sport. If he wants to bring a buddy or two to Lodi, I'll bring my spare rifles. They both have sights and life in their barrels. Just need ammo and slings. I can dig up mats, coats, and scopes with a little notice. It's awful hard for young people to get started with the cost and conflicts with school, jobs, family, etc. Shooting with Alex in the two man teams last summer was one of the highlights of my trip.

 

[farmergreg]

Hey Greg, keep Alex going. He's an outstanding young man and the future of the sport. Hope he can influence some of his peers to get into the sport. If he wants to bring a buddy or two to Lodi, I'll bring my spare rifles. They both have sights and life in their barrels. Just need ammo and slings. I can dig up mats, coats, and scopes with a little notice. It's awful hard for young people to get started with the cost and conflicts with school, jobs, family, etc. Shooting with Alex in the two man teams last summer was one of the highlights of my trip.

Jim:
Thanks for the kind words.
Alex and I both have a lot of fun shooting with you and the Utah gang.
It's definitely hard to keep focused with all of life's demands.
I have to say that Palma shooters are some of the finest individuals I've encountered. Very helpful, patient, and encouraging....just great folks to be around. And an excellent influence on my son.
Looking forward to Lodi.
Greg

 

[Erud]

I don't think it s DOA, but we are definitely at a crossroads. Between the issues with sight manufacturers dropping out, and the recent NRA rule change to allow any optics for OTC, things are not getting easier for Palma shooters. In spite of that (or perhaps because of it?), I believe there is potential for a resurgence in Palma shooting. It is never going to have the mass appeal that something like PRS has, but the differences will always appeal to a certain type of person. It's all fundamentals; position, sight alignment, trigger control. It's hard, and the learning curve is long. That's what I like about it. We just need to find those people.

 

[Twdmar]

Its not just a lack of suppliers. Its also that the few that still exist are also not well known and don't show up at the top of an internet search.
Palma shooters have not made a large footprint online compared to 3 gun/prs etc. They have a ton of websites, youtube channels etc. And when was the last time you saw a real article on highpower in the american rifleman. When i first got in the LR game, i had no idea how to pick sights, aperture size, slings etc. With the cost of gear, that can be intimidating.
Mentoring is probably mandatory to get new shooters into palma and also a bring what youve got and shoot it attitude. Its a tough game that requires time and dedication not just be a new shooter but also experienced shooters to show the way.

 

[Mr. Ten-X]

The crossroads were passed long ago and nationwide participation likely peaked in about the 2002-2005 timeframe.

Not sure that anyone in this thread actually saw Palma shooting grow to its peak. However, they have experienced the more recent, slow, downward slide. Not at all venues, but at many. Before the peak, enthusiasm was actually pretty high in spite of the fact that the NRA did very little promotion of the game.

A few facts:

In 2016 at Camp Perry, 101 competitors fired the Palma Match (Palma Div). 5 of those were Junior shooters. This was the final year for the Palma Match at Perry. If you will note, participation was HALF of what it once was.

In 2005 at Camp Perry, 198 competitors fired the Palma Match (Palma Div). Unable to determine # of Juniors
In 2004 at Camp Perry, 218 competitors fired the Palma Match (Palma Div). Unable to determine # of Juniors
In 2003 at Camp Perry, 200 competitors fired the Palma Match (Palma Div). Unable to determine # of Juniors
In 2002 at Camp Perry, 233 competitors fired the Palma Match (Palma Div). Unable to determine # of Juniors
In 2001 at Camp Perry, 211 competitors fired the Palma Match (Palma Div). Unable to determine # of Juniors - The US Palma Team tryout was held this year in October at Camp Butner.

I know what brought participation up. I also know many of the factors that have seen it nosedive. I also do not have an equitable solution to put forth.

 

[Erud]

Grant,
Those numbers are interesting, but seem to reflect the larger trend of the NRA Nationals as a whole. Where did everyone go, and why? Why did you give up competitive shooting?

 

[sparker]

Of course, once the bullet makers determine that their is no longer enough of a market for 155s, that will end it.

 

[Erud]

Of course, once the bullet makers determine that their is no longer enough of a market for 155s, that will end it.

That’s the spirit! Some real “rays of sunshine” in this thread.

At any rate, 155’s aren’t even required for US Palma, so the sport could carry on shooting other .30 cal bullets. Unless bullet makers decide to stop making all .30 cal bullets just to spite Palma shooters. Then I guess we are done.

 

[sparker]

That’s the spirit! Some real “rays of sunshine” in this thread.

At any rate, 155’s aren’t even required for US Palma, so the sport could carry on shooting other .30 cal bullets. Unless bullet makers decide to stop making all .30 cal bullets just to spite Palma shooters. Then I guess we are done.

Tongue is slowly making its way from my cheek.

 

[Mudcat]

If its number of bullets bought/shot, that determines if they are made, its going to be a while before 155s go byebye as there are still a good number of us that shoot them, probabably way more of them than say 125s, or 168s, or 190s...all of which are still made. I know how many 155s Trey and I go through a year, and its a pretty darn big number (we shoot mostly Palma, so we shoot more of those than everything else except maybe 22LR). Yep, you are always going to have those folks that want the fast paced, "on tv" sports, like PRS, 3 gun, etc, but there is always going to be a crowd that likes the slower paced, fine tuned aspect of our sport. If we are a limited number, so be it, doesnt mean we quit. Folks will still make stuff for us....just like parts manufacturers still make parts for us few guys that run motors with the distributors in the correct spot, up front.

 

[Mr. Ten-X]

Grant,
Those numbers are interesting, but seem to reflect the larger trend of the NRA Nationals as a whole. Where did everyone go, and why? Why did you give up competitive shooting?

No more goals, cost and other reasons including major-league burnout. Had paid my dues and felt I gave back far more than I ever got out of the sport.

Where did the Palma shooters go? Many have retired due to age and no juniors have moved up to take their place. Trust me, there are a PILE of dust-collecting Palma rifles laying around somewhere that will likely end up in estate auctions.

This should be a hard clue: In 2004, a friend of mine shot the Palma as a junior at Perry. Darned kid was a point behind me and I got a silver pin. They weren't going to give him a plaque because there were not enough junior shooters. Junior participation has been low for a long time. It's not something that just happened. But, juniors are the key...and the future in any niche shooting game. Without them, the game dies. You will "never" get newbie shooters to go sling/irons when they have so many other options available. That is human nature...they will take the path of least resistance and Palma isn't it.

Now, you are more likely to get the shooters back that shot Palma as a junior or were introduced to smallbore as juniors. Thing is, you won't see them until their hormones are no longer raging or they get their life and their family established. They will then have the additional time and more expendable assets to dump into the game. That will be at age 35-45. The most depressing part is that because new junior shooters have been in steady decline, the pool of adults likely to come back later in life is steadily dwindling. When you boil the lard down to soap, you wind up with bleak prospects.