Is neck turning worth the effort?

[JasonT]

It's a pretty simple question I guess. If human error were factored out, is neck turning the difference between .5" and .1" groups at 100 yards? Or is it more like meplat uniforming/pointing (evidence in both directions)?

 

[R.Morehouse]

For precision reloading i do believe neck turning is a must.......Rick

 

[HPMike800]

If you have a tight neck chamber and your fired neck clearance is below 0.002", it can make a big difference in group size. Too tight of a neck can cause very erratic groups.

 

[ShootDots]

I almost never shoot at 100 yards, although that may change to some slight degree in the near future. It is MY opinion that at least from 300 yards and further out, it makes a difference. I shot for years before I started turning necks. I had rifles that shot with precision without the turning of necks. I used to shoot for groups at 300 yards almost exclusively. However, once I got into long range F-Open competition, I did notice that neck turning gave me MORE CONSISTENT accuracy out at 600 and 1000 yards. Now I know this is a very "subjective" subject, so I am giving you MY opinion. It is like annealing, you either believe it is worth the energy and time spent or you don't. I believe that both neck turning and annealing lend accuracy a BIG hand.

Remember this truism: Accuracy is the CUMULATIVE effect of all that you either do or don't do in your loading regimen AND the ELIMINATION of the obstacles that stand in the way of achieving the level of accuracy you are desiring.

 

[ireload2]

You cannot gain much with a big sloppy neck as most factory rifles have.
The object is to guide the bullet without much variation.
If the chamber neck is large and cannot guide the case neck then you lose alignment between the case and the chamber. The bullet can move off center in relationship to the bore.

 

[jr600yd]

Let's consider why we neck turn? Aside from the tight neck crowd and Benchrest shooters atempting to wring out the last bit of accuracy what's the advantage? Here's the laymans answer.
There are two schools of thought.

The first EVERY ONE knows and continually writes about.
The theory is: all brass cases are bent to some degree, even after sizing, this gives the neck a thick side and a thin side. Upon firing the thin side will release the bullet before the thick side. Hence the bullet does not enter the lands straight but a little cocked. Not good for accuracy. Neck turning, even just "skimming", uniforms neck diameter and allows for even release over the full 360 degrees of the neck.
Will this improve accuracy? IMHO if your shooting a factory rifle and your target is under 500 yds no. It might but you'll never know the difference.

The second reason for neck turning or "skimming", and I believe gives the most advantage, is it will help increases brass life. Whether you use a bushing or expander ball sizing die you are not working the neck as much. Annealing your brass also helps.

Will neck turning take you from .5 to .1 in groups at 100 yds? I doubt. It very much. Sounds like better wind reading might.

 

[Sheldon N]

One of the major factors in precision reloading is consistency. And probably the biggest part of that is consistency of neck tension. It should be consistent in the length of the neck that contacts the bullet (trimming), consistent in the firmness of grip on the bullet due to brass hardness (annealing), and consistent in the grip on the bullet both all the way around the circumference of the neck and from case to case (neck turning).

Neck turning may improve group size and reduce the number of "flyers" but also has a measurable effect in reducing velocity variation from shot to shot. In testing that I've seen neck turning produced clear results in improving SD which results in better group size at extended shooting distances.

 

[billlarson]

It's a pretty simple question I guess. If human error were factored out, is neck turning the difference between .5" and .1" groups at 100 yards? Or is it more like meplat uniforming/pointing (evidence in both directions)?

yes........

 

[Endyo]

There's a learning curve involved with neck turning and it is a time consuming process. Done right it should improve your shot to shot velocity spreads. Will accuracy improve from .5 to .1 at 100 yards? Absolutely not.

I think a liberal estimate on reduction in group size at 100 yards would be 0.05-0.1moa. Measuring that small of a difference would require a large sample and a strong handle on other variables in your handloading operations.

A lot of shooters don't measure groups or keep logs on those things so they will argue there is no accuracy gain from neck turning. I believe the gain is small and tangible.

It only has to be done once, maybe twice if you get brass flow/shoulder-to-neck growth. It is relatively cheap to neck turn, but extremely tedious and time consuming.

Unless I was competing in a shooting sport I wouldn't bother with the effort. 1/3MOA or better is possible without neck turning. Some that compete still don't neck turn FWIW. Shooting in long range competition as Ben (Shootsdots) mentioned I would think neck turning an absolute must.

 

[Shynloco]

It's a pretty simple question I guess. If human error were factored out, is neck turning the difference between .5" and .1" groups at 100 yards? Or is it more like meplat uniforming/pointing (evidence in both directions)?

Jason,
I shoot exclusively 100 yds in several calibers. I've tested all my calibers with turning necks and not turning neck. IMHO, turning necks will NOT make a difference, except to clean up the necks (concentricity) for shooting @ 100 yds. The ONLY exception is where you have a tight chamber and you are looking for a .002 clearance or to be able to close the bolt. Lapua has changed the thickness of most of their brass to accommodate and do away with the need to turn their brass which is why they call it "No Turn Brass." Personally, for precision shooting purposes, I still "clean up" all my new brass strictly to insure concentricity. But for general shooting purposes like hunting and recreation, you are wasting your time and money by turning brass.

Alex

 

[HTSmith]

So if one's preferred load is jammed hard into the lands, will neck turning still make a difference?

 

[JasonT]

Wow guys I really appreciate how many of you chimed in! The information is invaluable to me.

My current barrel is a Bartlein 0.30 cal 308Win 9"twist 5r. Do you know what kind of reamer GA Precision would have used? Would it be a Bisley Match? It chambers lapua brass just fine.

If it is in fact a no-turn chamber, then I'll probably just do the "skim cut" that people have been mentioning to even out the thickness and reduce the SD.

Jason

 

[Sheldon N]

My current barrel is a Bartlein 0.30 cal 308Win 9"twist 5r. Do you know what kind of reamer GA Precision would have used? Would it be a Bisley Match? It chambers lapua brass just fine.

My GA Precision 308 Crusader does not require neck turning with Lapua brass. Fired brass comes out at around .342 and a loaded round is .338 so there is around .004 clearance.

 

[JasonT]

Oh ok thanks Sheldon!

 

[Brians356]

You cannot gain much with a big sloppy neck as most factory rifles have.
The object is to guide the bullet without much variation.
If the chamber neck is large and cannot guide the case neck then you lose alignment between the case and the chamber. The bullet can move off center in relationship to the bore.

If there is enough chamber neck clearance around the neck to allow safe expansion of the neck upon firing, then the chamber neck cannot be guiding or centering the case in the chamber, or the bullet in the bore.
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[Brians356]

So if one's preferred load is jammed hard into the lands, will neck turning still make a difference?

If by "make a difference" you mean "improve alignment of bullet with bore" the answer is "no". But the answer is also "no" if the bullet is jumping.

The case neck proper cannot center the case in the chamber, or the bullet in the bore, since there must be clearance around the case neck to allow the neck to expand and fully release the bullet. Ideally the outside of the case neck proper should not touch anything. If you're going to shoot a rifle with the chamber walls hugging the outside of the case neck, let me know where, so I can arrange to be elsewhere.
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[4xforfun]

Jason,
I shoot exclusively 100 yds in several calibers. I've tested all my calibers with turning necks and not turning neck. IMHO, turning necks will NOT make a difference, except to clean up the necks (concentricity) for shooting @ 100 yds. The ONLY exception is where you have a tight chamber and you are looking for a .002 clearance or to be able to close the bolt. Lapua has changed the thickness of most of their brass to accommodate and do away with the need to turn their brass which is why they call it "No Turn Brass." Personally, for precision shooting purposes, I still "clean up" all my new brass strictly to insure concentricity. But for general shooting purposes like hunting and recreation, you are wasting your time and money by turning brass.

Alex

There is no such thing as "no turn brass". No brass mfgr lists "no turn brass".

There are , however, no turn chambers.... cut with reamers built for a specific OEM brass.... The "standard "no turn" .272 neck on the BR/Dasher comes to mind where loaded rounds come in at around .2695 - .270. when loaded with blue box Lapua brass.

 

[Brians356]

There is no such thing as "no turn brass". No brass mfgr lists "no turn brass".

There are , however, no turn chambers.... cut with reamers built for a specific OEM brass.... The "standard "no turn" .272 neck on the BR/Dasher comes to mind where loaded rounds come in at around .2695 - .270. when loaded with blue box Lapua brass.

What would happen in that .272 chamber if you loaded "gold box" Lapua brass?
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[HTSmith]

If by "make a difference" you mean "improve alignment of bullet with bore" the answer is "no". But the answer is also "no" if the bullet is jumping.

The case neck proper cannot center the case in the chamber, or the bullet in the bore, since there must be clearance around the case neck to allow the neck to expand and fully release the bullet. Ideally the outside of the case neck proper should not touch anything. If you're going to shoot a rifle with the chamber walls hugging the outside of the case neck, let me know where, so I can arrange to be elsewhere.
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For the record I don't turn necks, so no ax to grind. So you are saying, outside of providing adequate neck clearance, turning does no good for accuracy?

 

[ireload2]

Sure it can. What you are saying is nonsense. What are you going to say aligns the bullet before you pull the trigger? Want to cut the neck off of a case and fire it with no neck? There are 3 functional features that can align the case. The case is guided by the body, shoulder cone or neck. And where the case goes so goes the bullet. (Of course with a rimmed round it would be possible to align the case on the rim such as in a single shot falling block rifle.) Maybe only one of these are the guide and maybe all or maybe it varies from round to round depending on the geometry variations from case to case. Those variations are cause by differences in the manufacturing process or they are caused by variations in the reloading technique. The bullet is held in position by the neck at the instant of ignition so that blows you out of the water unless you are breech seating a Schutzen rifle. Sure you might have it jammed into the lands too, but not every one loads that way. Don't say that the free bore guides the bullet. By your definition it cannot guide the bullet entirely if it too is cut oversize for safe clearance.
But you know very well a tight chamber keeps the bullet more closely aligned with the bore axis. If it does not do that, then why one earth does do all these people use tight neck chambers and precision turned brass?

If there is enough chamber neck clearance around the neck to allow safe expansion of the neck upon firing, then the chamber neck cannot be guiding or centering the case in the chamber, or the bullet in the bore.
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