dcali
Bullet Maker
Ideally, you should match the throat to the bullet and OAL you want to shoot. Practically, you’ll be able to shoot a range of bullets. Look at the bullets you want to shoot and pick something that will work for them.
Is my custom barrel a waste? Help
- Thread starter DngBat7
- Start date
DngBat7
Silver $$ Contributor
Ok. I’m new as you can tell. But going forward, I want to get my own reamer, so one set of dies will last me as many barrels as I want. Otherwise seems like a waste getting a custom die
I guess where I was going, do I want to have a longer and shorter bullet to have the ability to jam in the lands? Not saying they won’t work with a longer jump, but it may also be the shorter jump that works. So I would be nice to have the option. In that case, the longer bullet will be seated much farther in the case. Does that work?
@Dan S you are over reacting about your gun. Just shoot the gun! You are confused because you have been reading waaay too much in the forums and not actually testing. Go out, seat the bullet where you feel comfortable inside the magazine and do a powder test from there. After the powder test, start a seating depth test, pushing the bullet into the case. And finally, stop reading into the matter, and start shooting. Dont spend money on something you dont completely understand yet by buying reamers and dies. Shoot your gun. Test your gun. Alot of new shooters fall into this trap, dont be one of them. Test your gun! Shoot it! Enjoy it!
dcali
Bullet Maker
Yes, it works. The compromise you’re making is that when you seat the bullet deeper in the case, you are giving up case capacity, which will raise pressures slightly. But as long as you have about half a caliber of bearing surface in the neck, you should be fine. Maybe a little more if you’re going to be rough with the ammo.
I would recommend burning up a couple barrels before even thinking about custom dies. You really need to settle in on something, and chances are high that you’ll change your mind about along the way. Custom dies are way, way down on the list of things that matter.
carlsbad
Lions don't lose sleep over the opinions of sheep.
I didn't read all the replies but jumping your 130's even a long distance to the lands isn't a fatal flaw. Shoot them and see how it goes.
If you shoot out of a magazine and are relatively new, then it would not surprise me if at sometimes you have gotten carried away and shot too many rounds too fast and done some damage. Your throat has probably eroded some (whether you overheated it or not).
So what size groups are you shooting with the 140's? 130's?
Find what shoots best for you.
Finally, remember barrels are a consumable. Once you're done with one, put on another one. PRN.
--Jerry
If you shoot out of a magazine and are relatively new, then it would not surprise me if at sometimes you have gotten carried away and shot too many rounds too fast and done some damage. Your throat has probably eroded some (whether you overheated it or not).
So what size groups are you shooting with the 140's? 130's?
Find what shoots best for you.
Finally, remember barrels are a consumable. Once you're done with one, put on another one. PRN.
--Jerry
DngBat7
Silver $$ Contributor
Hi Jerry. Thanks for the response. I am necessarily not new to shooting, more new to “precision” reloading. The throat was pretty long from the beginning. About 2 weeks ago got my best group ever, 4 bullets .116 with 140 hybrids from a rest of course. I am assuming that’s decent considering this is not a BR rifle, Rifle regularly shoots really tight.
Not that you have done anything wrong so far, but......I would highly recommend that you have the throat looked at with a borescope. There is a definite possibility that you could have a scorched or burned throat. You haven't said what brand this barrel is and you don't need to. There are a few barrels that seem to have, I don't want to say "soft" steel, but that is the term several of my fellow gunsmith buddies use. It's not that the steel is actually soft per se, but some barrels will scorch the throat a lot sooner than what would be considered normal even thought they are shot and maintained as good as they can be. This means no overheating, no really hot max loads, etc.
I have two barrels I own personally and neither is a caliber known to be hard on barrels and neither has had any mistreatment...both have a scorched throat to the point it affected accuracy and seating depth. Neither has had 300 rounds thru them yet. I cannot say what the problem is, but it seems to be the steel itself. You have double the rounds and it sure seems like with some barrels they just don't have to be overheated or fired with max loads.
DennisH
Life Time NRA member
Dan S, I have read all the replies. You are in the same exact situation I was in with my 22-250 & my 243!
I was shooting heavy bullets in the 22-250, and 107smk's out of my 243. I ended up shooting 52 grain bullets in my 22-250, & 55 & 70 grain bullets out of my 243. Unbelievable results, read below.
On both rifles, I was able to use my Hornady (Stoney Point) depth gauge on the "Heavier" bullets, but when I decided to shoot the smaller ones, the bullet would fall out of the brass while I was trying to measure them. I scratched my head a little, and I was not putting another barrel on the rifles just to shoot the smaller bullets.
So I decided to pull out my "Lyman's" Reloading book and look at the "COAL's". Let's start with the 22-250. After studying the manual, asking questions just like you are, I took my "gauge" to Cabela's to measure the Factory Federal 55 grain "Nosler Ballistic Tips" bullets, FGMM's. Surprising, the COAL matched what was in the Lyman manual. I decided to buy a box of bullets, Factory Federal FGMM's. 1 box was near $50 bucks with tax.
Jumping to my 243, I did the same thing. I went to Cabela's to measure the FGMM's with 70 grain NBT's, and also the 90 NBT's. Remember, I was not able to measure these bullets with my depth gauge. I bought a box of both, 70 & 90 grain NBT's, spending $100 bucks on both boxes.
I recorded the COAL's, plus I opened up one bullet for the 22-250, and one for my 243. I measured the amount of powder in both and recorded this also. This was my base point for both bullets. I recorded my speeds with the Factory Bullets vs. my Reloads to determine the powders were somewhere close. The speeds were within 100fps of each other, I recorded all this information..
I could NOT measure the jump from the lands, it could be measure in 1/8ths vs. thousandths.
This took place within 8 months of each other, and I started with the 22-250.
To my surprise, the 22-250 was opening up one hole on my target with the Factory Bullets, Federal FGMM's. I was shocked. I loaded up some after that first day, and a week later, I settled with 52 grain flat based Berger Bullets. Below is the Target. It's absolutely the "tightest" 4 shot group I have ever shot in my life! Diamond is 1/4, distance is 100 yards. "I have no idea what the jump was, I knew the loads were working. I stopped my experiments and have been "Super Happy" with this rifle ever since. This is a Factory Savage VLP 22-250. I worked on the trigger, or installed a Rifle Basix Trigger on the rifle, and bedded the action. "THAT's" it, it was straight factory excluding these two items. Here is the picture.
NOTE: All other bullets shot very well out of this gun, but my personal goal was to have a "Tac Driver".
Then it came time for the 243. (NOTE: People "hired" me to find the perfect load for their rifle, the reason for so many experiments, plus I wanted to know. The barrels I was selling, the buyers wanted the perfect load combination with the barrel.). I shot the Factor Federals, FGMM 55 & 70 grain NBT's. I also tried 90 grain NBT's. Reload's with 107 SMK's. All four of these shot tiny groups @ 100 yards, my baseline. I can state the exact same story for this rifle as well. I worked on the trigger, and bedded the action. It also was a Savage VLD. Below is the picture of the target.
55 grain NBT's on the first picture, what ever the Lyman COAL recommended.
NOTICE the .1 tenth charge difference, and the results it produced.
Below is using 107 SMK's @ 100 yards. I slightly pulled one out of the four!
5 shot group, 70 grain NBT's @ 100 yards. 1/4" diamond, pulled one slightly out of the 5
FWIW, 243 with Factory loaded FGMM 55 nbt's, 3 shot group.
Conclusion: I took the time to write this response just to show you like many stated, your wasting good trigger time at the range.
FORGET about "Custom Dies" find a load your comfortable with, it can be done with your rifle as it is. If you want to shoot 140's, then load a dummy bullet with a 140 pill, make sure 100% of the bearing surface is in the neck, or just a little further out might be better. I accomplish this using the "split neck" method. You will be able to shoot 130 with no issues with the same custom built barrel.
Once your comfortable, and know what you going to shoot, then have a custom die built for this bullet. You really need to be 100% comfortable with your selected load. Shoot it for several months, then entertain the idea of a custom built die. Once you have the die custom made, it's done forever.
I realize what your trying to accomplish, You will have to purchase your own reamer first, have a barrel turned with this reamer, go through the dial in procedure, then have your custom FL die made. .I have been there! Hopefully what I wrote helps you and maybe some others. Every rifle will be different, every barrel will be different.
Any questions, just let us know.
Happy Thanksgiving to all,
Dennis & Family
I was shooting heavy bullets in the 22-250, and 107smk's out of my 243. I ended up shooting 52 grain bullets in my 22-250, & 55 & 70 grain bullets out of my 243. Unbelievable results, read below.
On both rifles, I was able to use my Hornady (Stoney Point) depth gauge on the "Heavier" bullets, but when I decided to shoot the smaller ones, the bullet would fall out of the brass while I was trying to measure them. I scratched my head a little, and I was not putting another barrel on the rifles just to shoot the smaller bullets.
So I decided to pull out my "Lyman's" Reloading book and look at the "COAL's". Let's start with the 22-250. After studying the manual, asking questions just like you are, I took my "gauge" to Cabela's to measure the Factory Federal 55 grain "Nosler Ballistic Tips" bullets, FGMM's. Surprising, the COAL matched what was in the Lyman manual. I decided to buy a box of bullets, Factory Federal FGMM's. 1 box was near $50 bucks with tax.
Jumping to my 243, I did the same thing. I went to Cabela's to measure the FGMM's with 70 grain NBT's, and also the 90 NBT's. Remember, I was not able to measure these bullets with my depth gauge. I bought a box of both, 70 & 90 grain NBT's, spending $100 bucks on both boxes.
I recorded the COAL's, plus I opened up one bullet for the 22-250, and one for my 243. I measured the amount of powder in both and recorded this also. This was my base point for both bullets. I recorded my speeds with the Factory Bullets vs. my Reloads to determine the powders were somewhere close. The speeds were within 100fps of each other, I recorded all this information..
I could NOT measure the jump from the lands, it could be measure in 1/8ths vs. thousandths.
This took place within 8 months of each other, and I started with the 22-250.
To my surprise, the 22-250 was opening up one hole on my target with the Factory Bullets, Federal FGMM's. I was shocked. I loaded up some after that first day, and a week later, I settled with 52 grain flat based Berger Bullets. Below is the Target. It's absolutely the "tightest" 4 shot group I have ever shot in my life! Diamond is 1/4, distance is 100 yards. "I have no idea what the jump was, I knew the loads were working. I stopped my experiments and have been "Super Happy" with this rifle ever since. This is a Factory Savage VLP 22-250. I worked on the trigger, or installed a Rifle Basix Trigger on the rifle, and bedded the action. "THAT's" it, it was straight factory excluding these two items. Here is the picture.
NOTE: All other bullets shot very well out of this gun, but my personal goal was to have a "Tac Driver".
Then it came time for the 243. (NOTE: People "hired" me to find the perfect load for their rifle, the reason for so many experiments, plus I wanted to know. The barrels I was selling, the buyers wanted the perfect load combination with the barrel.). I shot the Factor Federals, FGMM 55 & 70 grain NBT's. I also tried 90 grain NBT's. Reload's with 107 SMK's. All four of these shot tiny groups @ 100 yards, my baseline. I can state the exact same story for this rifle as well. I worked on the trigger, and bedded the action. It also was a Savage VLD. Below is the picture of the target.
55 grain NBT's on the first picture, what ever the Lyman COAL recommended.
NOTICE the .1 tenth charge difference, and the results it produced.
Below is using 107 SMK's @ 100 yards. I slightly pulled one out of the four!
5 shot group, 70 grain NBT's @ 100 yards. 1/4" diamond, pulled one slightly out of the 5
FWIW, 243 with Factory loaded FGMM 55 nbt's, 3 shot group.
Conclusion: I took the time to write this response just to show you like many stated, your wasting good trigger time at the range.
FORGET about "Custom Dies" find a load your comfortable with, it can be done with your rifle as it is. If you want to shoot 140's, then load a dummy bullet with a 140 pill, make sure 100% of the bearing surface is in the neck, or just a little further out might be better. I accomplish this using the "split neck" method. You will be able to shoot 130 with no issues with the same custom built barrel.
Once your comfortable, and know what you going to shoot, then have a custom die built for this bullet. You really need to be 100% comfortable with your selected load. Shoot it for several months, then entertain the idea of a custom built die. Once you have the die custom made, it's done forever.
I realize what your trying to accomplish, You will have to purchase your own reamer first, have a barrel turned with this reamer, go through the dial in procedure, then have your custom FL die made. .I have been there! Hopefully what I wrote helps you and maybe some others. Every rifle will be different, every barrel will be different.
Any questions, just let us know.
Happy Thanksgiving to all,
Dennis & Family
Last edited:
DngBat7
Silver $$ Contributor
U
Thanks Dennis. Very helpful. I would be curious what the jump is on the 22-250.
I don't think there is such a thing as "soft steel" from any of the barrel makers we use. I've shot three new barrels in the past year (2 Krieger, 1 CBI) and they have all shown "scorched" throats in about 200 rounds of relatively modest loads. On a Krieger 31", 1.125 straight Dasher, it looked like I had left my oxy-acetylene torch in the freebore after about 300 rounds. Didn't seem to affect accuracy too much on any of them. Every barrel I have seen has this effect. My advise is to not use a bore scope. It'll just scare you.
~Gary
DennisH
Life Time NRA member
Dan, it's a lot, enough for the 52 grain bullet to rattle when I was trying to check it with my gauge!
Dennis
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