Is it just age, or perhaps something else?

[mikecr]

AI is easy. If the chamber is set up true Ackley there is an interference fit with new cases to head space off.
For initial forming, any time it's big change like this, it's wise to dip anneal beforehand to deep body.

Given thickness of typical 223rem brass to it's diameter, there is no reason (other than choices made) for a case to ever die. The extra AI capacity allows good performance with lower pressure loads. Lower body taper and high shoulder angle allows less sizing and movement of brass thickness, less stretching and less sizing need, which leads to fewer trim cycles (if ever in 223). The small case diameter allows for more barrel steel around the chamber and stronger breach support, so webs should yield less and pockets should stay tight.

 

[JPB4BAMA]

Every shooter i know would be tickled to death to get 23 loads on any brass, but you sound almost disappointed. I think you must be an excellent reloader to get 23, congratulations. I've got some Lapua I use in a 223 bolt action I never thought of it as much better than Lake City, maybe i was wrong.

Not disappointed at all, But always inquisitive especially when I encounter something I have not seen before. Some great posts have been made to m y inquiry, and who knows I might even get some of it through my thick skull and learn something.

 

[K22]

My venture into that world started for several reasons, many of which have proven not to hold the value that I initially assumed. First was that I built my first custom from an existing Rem 700 SPS chambered in 223. I wanted more velocity and the ability too shoot heavier bullets to compete at 600 in local BR matches. Component cost was a big driver in this decision, but also was my thought that learning to shoot with the 224 bullets would force improvement in my skills, which I really think it has. As time progressed I began to learn that the incremental velocity increases were insignificant downrange as compared to improved precision at the low node. Would I do it again? Not sure. Never got around to try some of the other powders that might find a good higher velocity node at the upper end and gain what I had hoped for in the beginning, but likely at some other cost. What I do know is that in the final analysis, the lower cost staying with the 224 diameter got me shooting more and improving my wind skills to the point where I can actually "kinda-compete" against the 6mm guys, but at the same time confirmed the knowledge that if I want to run with the big dogs, I gotta get off the porch and go bigger. But it has been a really fun journey.

I had a similar experience when I shot NRA bulls eye competition in the 70's and 80's. I shot revolvers which were a significant handicap in the timed but especially rapid fire even with very high-quality S&W target grade models.

However, I was able through a lot of practice and dedication somewhat master it qualifying as Distinguished Expert (285x300). However, my pistol team members kept pushing me to go to semi-auto's since they told me I was hurting the team because I could easily add another 5 points to my aggregate if I switched to the semi's.

I had very good job at the time, so I took the plunge and purchased an S&W Model 41, 22 rimfire, a top-grade small-bore pistol at the time. After some break in time, they were correct, I was shooting higher scores more consistently and was more competitive with the top rim fire shooters.

I kept shooting the Model 14, 38 Special revolver however because in those days, you could not buy a factory ready to compete semi-auto 45 ACP. You had to have one built. The only factory option in semi auto - competition ready was the Model 52, S&W, 38 Special. I eventually got one but never master it because it was so light weight. However, in would hold an "X" ring at 50 yards with hollow base wadcutters' off a Ransom Rest. So I went back to the Model 14 and manage because I at least was shooting in the low expert range (280x300). But in looking back, I shoot have had a 45 ACP built.

So, as you pointed out, if you want to compete and shoot the best you can you need to have the equipment that gives you the best chance.

 

[Webster]

I never understood the need to venture into the AI world. I'm aware of the improved "paper" ballistics but for the vast majority of hunters / shooters, the commercial cartridges offer a complete range of capabilities without having to resort to a 'wildcat' and all the complications that go alone with such cartridges.

I'm not trying to disparage AI shooters, if you like to experiment with different 'wild cat' cartridges that can be a hobby in itself. Some of the commercial cartridges began as "wild cats" so there can be some value. What I'm addressing is the average hunter / shooter.

If you read and study the many hunting exploits of Jack O'Connor, you'll see what I mean. My ex-boss was a born, raise and live a lot of his life in Wyoming and along with his family hunted various big game species successfully throughout the West. Their rifles: 270's and 30-06's.

Agree. I only buy calibers that I can buy supplies for easily and they have to be known to have extreme accuracy. Most of the wildcats are no better than something that's common. An extra 100 fps is meaningless. Why make reloading difficult. Now own a 6BR and a 6BRX for GH hunting. Just size and reload like any common cartridge. Sold my 7mm Rem mag when I gave up deer hunting because of too many encounters in the woods with deer hunters pointing their loaded guns at people to get a better look at them with their rifle scope. I heard one hunter say he shot at a noise in some bushes.

 

[mikecr]

Most of the wildcats are no better than something that's common. An extra 100 fps is meaningless. Why make reloading difficult.

This assertion seems absurd..
There is far more to design improvements than mere muzzle velocity.
And most 'common' cartridges out there today arose from wildcatting.
The 243, 25-06, 260, 270, 308,, pretty common,, all 30-06 wildcats at some point.

 

[K22]

Agree. I only buy calibers that I can buy supplies for easily and they have to be known to have extreme accuracy. Most of the wildcats are no better than something that's common. An extra 100 fps is meaningless. Why make reloading difficult. Now own a 6BR and a 6BRX for GH hunting. Just size and reload like any common cartridge. Sold my 7mm Rem mag when I gave up deer hunting because of too many encounters in the woods with deer hunters pointing their loaded guns at people to get a better look at them with their rifle scope. I heard one hunter say he shot at a noise in some bushes.

Hunting public land here in PA is a combat zone in my experience. Gave it up years ago and was fortunate to find private land where the farmers would allow me to hunt deer.

Amen on calibers. I find it extremely difficult to believe that a 308, 270, 30 06, etc. can't handle 100% of safe and humane shooting opportunities for the vast majority of deer hunters.

 

[JPB4BAMA]

Hunting public land here in PA is a combat zone in my experience. Gave it up years ago and was fortunate to find private land where the farmers would allow me to hunt deer.

Amen on calibers. I find it extremely difficult to believe that a 308, 270, 30 06, etc. can't handle 100% of safe and humane shooting opportunities for the vast majority of deer hunters.

I know it's off my own original topic, but felt like responding to this one.

Why hunt the public gamelands in PA to begin with? When I livet there for about 10 years there were more in my back yard than I ever saw out in the gamelands.
But that "joke" aside, I must say that after moving back to Alabama I do miss the PA resources. Plenty of state sponsored lands and beautiful country. During my time there I did not get a sense of danger nor too many hunters ( SW PA ), but that may also explain why I saw so few, but compared to here it was a dream location. As a younger guy in AL, the public lands and "open/accessible" private land was quite easy to find and was fairly decent, but now it is a waste of time if not outright dangerous. To wit, all the timber land and private stuff is now clubbed up and no where for the occasional hunter to go. I'm not an avid deer hunter and only go out on occasion as time permits, and frankly enjoy the time out even if I never get a shot but I am not inclined to spend $$$ to join a club just for a day or two.

And I would most whole heartedly agree with you on the suitability of the afore mentioned cartridges for hunting. In fact the 30-06 has proven capable on virtually all on North American game, with maybe the exception of Grizzly or Alaskan Brown, where the term "overkill" does not apply.

 

[K22]

I know it's off my own original topic, but felt like responding to this one.

Why hunt the public gamelands in PA to begin with? When I livet there for about 10 years there were more in my back yard than I ever saw out in the gamelands.
But that "joke" aside, I must say that after moving back to Alabama I do miss the PA resources. Plenty of state sponsored lands and beautiful country. During my time there I did not get a sense of danger nor too many hunters ( SW PA ), but that may also explain why I saw so few, but compared to here it was a dream location. As a younger guy in AL, the public lands and "open/accessible" private land was quite easy to find and was fairly decent, but now it is a waste of time if not outright dangerous. To wit, all the timber land and private stuff is now clubbed up and no where for the occasional hunter to go. I'm not an avid deer hunter and only go out on occasion as time permits, and frankly enjoy the time out even if I never get a shot but I am not inclined to spend $$$ to join a club just for a day or two.

And I would most whole heartedly agree with you on the suitability of the afore mentioned cartridges for hunting. In fact the 30-06 has proven capable on virtually all on North American game, with maybe the exception of Grizzly or Alaskan Brown, where the term "overkill" does not apply.

PA does have an extensive public land for hunting and recreation.

Maybe I overstated the danger, but I've had some bad experiences on State Game Lands. However, if you hike a significant distance off the beaten trail then you encounter less pressure and hunters.

Also, if you deer hunt after the first two days then the pressure drops off considerably. Of course, it's double edge sword, the more hunters in the woods the more the deer will move.

Anyway, I now hunt private lands (farms) and it's much more enjoyable for me.