Is F-Class for second class shooters?

[Travelor]

I have had to deal with a number of Clubs that are not F-Class friendly.

By that I mean one Club in my area has told us we can pay the full entry fees and will be allowed to shoot, but our scores WILL NOT be submitted to the NRA and no match trophies given to F-Class. This Club recently changed the bulletin wording, but the total lack of recognition has NOT CHANGED.

Just this past week, I shot a Regional 600 yard team match were the F-Class shooters equaled the number of iron sight shooters. We drove for 3 hours each way to shoot and after the Match, the iron sight shooter teams were awarded plaques - we, the F-Class shooters got nothing.

I have read Forum discussions in the past were the iron sight shooters stated that F-Class was ruining the sport of long range shooting by having new shooters not shoot like "real men".

Am I being overly sensitive to this or are you finding this to be the case in your areas also? A lot of us do not want to or cannot physically shoot with slings with metallic sights, but still want to enjoy shooting long range.

George

 

[Taildrag15X]

Not sure about how to address this....we have had no problems with getting the "NEW" sport recognized for Awards & Prizes at the Upstate NY & Vermont Clubs that hold High Power Tournaments. There has been issues with the longest available Range in our area as they like to hold out for all the Iron shooters before squading F-Class shooters.

I think that if the Match Program that was sent to the NRA for the Tournament listed F-Class that the Scores need to be sent in per NRA policy. This means that you turned in a SR-1 Card and they take your money for the NRA Approved/Registered Tournament ($4.65 or $4.85 don't have it in front of me) that this money is due to the NRA for the Classification system.

It has happened to me and a few others at our local Club that the Match Director was taking the money and not turning in the scores or money, we fixed it by taking control of the Tournament Operations.

I think that if you contacted via email this address: nrahighpower@nrahq.org and explained your problem it might open some eyes.

If nothing else you can contact these nice people: Tournament Reporting Dept. at 703-267-1454 and see what they say.

I feel your pain in this matter and am doing my best to keep our Tournaments running smooth, if you need any other info on this from me email me.

 

[OnlyInAJeep]

Without seeing the Tournament Program it's unpossible to have informed opinion...

I haven't competed for four-five years, damn house, marriage, dog : but the DesMoines Rifle Club's programs have always read...

600 YARD MID-RANGE INDIVIDUAL MATCH:
MATCH 1: 2 SIGHTING SHOTS AND 20 ROUNDS FOR RECORD, PRONE, SLOW FIRE, 600 YARDS, MR-1 TARGET,
22 MIN. TIME LIMIT. ANY RIFLE, ANY SIGHTS.
MATCH 2: REPEAT OF MATCH 1.
MATCH 3: 2 SIGHTING SHOTS AND 20 ROUNDS FOR RECORD, PRONE, SLOW FIRE, 600 YARDS, MR-1 TARGET,
22 MIN TIME LIMIT, ANY RIFLE, IRON SIGHTS.
MATCH 4: REPEAT OF MATCH 3.
MATCH 5: AGGREGATE OF MATCHES 1-4.

DIVISION BY RIFLE: All matches will be divided by service rifle and match rifle.

...for long/midrange matches. And somewheres on there is says, 'F-Class shooters welcome'. If your match bulletin is similar then you are not meeting the conditions of the matches, "PRONE" (Rule 5.6), by shooting with bipod/rest support and not be in the running for awards or classification. Back then the club didn't have F-Class targets and F-Classers shot on MR-1.

The 'real-men' guys are just jerks who have small penises and are beaten by their wives. They need someone to piss on the make themselves feel better. Most shooters are happy to see new folks and if shooting with artificial support will extend some one's competing years, or bring in more folks...all the better.

$0.02, Steve

 

[memilanuk]

George,

I've ran into a fair amount of that around here (Washington). It's slowly getting better... as a few of the 'old guard' try shooting an F-Class match for real (not just dabbling on a practice day for a few shots) and find out that it ain't quite as easy as it looks. Perhaps less physically demanding, but 'winning' still takes some work. Also, we recently (last year or two) got a new state HP director who takes a relatively dim view of anyone being treated as a second class citizen.

You have to remember that pretty much all match directors are volunteers. Many started out on Service Rifles, where shooting is/was mostly about the shooter, and depending on their age, very little to do with the gun/accessories or especially ammo - i.e. F-Class, even F/TR, is a very alien concept to them in that regard. For all intents and purposes, F-Class makes their life harder, as they have to essentially run an entirely separate match on paper, as none of the categories line up - Match Winner, 1st HM, High Senior, High Junior, etc. Separate rules, separate targets, and then separate awards. How many F-Class shooters do you see stepping forward to help *run* matches? Around here we have trouble at times scraping up more than 5 F-class shooters to have a 'match' much less classes - so I understand in those situations when awards are a bit scarce.

The other thing that has helped a bit around here is talking to the right people. If match directors don't want to play nice... talk to the state HP director (politely). Chances are that person wants to see more people on the line, regardless of what discipline they shoot, and can bring some pressure to bear on the match directors - who are probably familiar w/ the state HP rep more so than some random competitor they just met last weekend (for example) and thus more open to suggestions. If they don't respond, talk to the NRA Competitions dept. Talk to the club's board about their HP program if you're a member. If you can, start volunteering to help run the matches, or even just get there earlier and make a visible attempt to help set up. Make F-Class shooters seem like less of a burden, and in the bargain you'll gain more control of how F-Class is handled (over time).

Failing the above... I console my self with the knowledge that I will most likely out-live the majority of my 'problems' and already have a leg up on their replacements...

Monte

 

[1000yardstare]

From a Canadian perspective, F Class is given equal recognition with TR at the Provincials and Nationals.

In the Ontario Fullbore Championships both the TR and F Class winners are "chaired". Any prize in TR is duplicated in F Class. In fact there would be more F because of the two divisions, F(O) and F/TR.

The situation would be similar at the Canadian Championships where F Class shoots on a 1/2 minute V-Bull.

The target situation is a little more confused on the Provincial level because they are smaller orginizations and it costs money to continually buy/print different targets as F Class evolves. Last year the experimental ICFRA targets came from Australia.

In the Ontarios this year F Class may shoot on the TR one minute V-Bull which means a 6 point V-Bull. The national group, the DCRA, is not printing ICFRA targets yet which would lower costs.

 

[nhm16]

I just shot my first match ever this past weekend, a 1000 yard match at my local club. F-classers made up over 3/4s of the shooters there yesterday. There's no second class status here. BTW I had a blast, and can't wait for the next match.

 

[Taildrag15X]

I just shot my first match ever this past weekend, a 1000 yard match at my local club. F-classers made up over 3/4s of the shooters there yesterday. There's no second class status here. BTW I had a blast, and can't wait for the next match.

Where's that? Any results........

 

[Longtrain]

I've been shooting F Class for four years. Most of the matches are fine and we co-exist with most of Palma guys fine. Given, there are a few that look down on our sport, as if we weren't slung up and shooting irons we are not real rifleman. Those are people I wouldn't associate with anyway, so I don't really lose sleep over it.

The one thing that has bugged me, is that some match directors won't submit our scores to the NRA and if they do they are sent in as Long Range scores. I know this is true as I received my Master card from the NRA for Long Range.

Upon calling the NRA and indicating that I was an F-T/R shooter, they reviewed that match and told me that those scores came in as LR scores. They corrected mine, placing my scores in the correct area.

We work hard to play, pay and enjoy our sport, we should be given credit for our accomplishments as well as LR shooters deserve and want theirs.

With all the anti-gun crap out there, everyone should be glad that the lines and relays are full, regardless of their chosen disipline.

Tony
Longtrain

 

[Taildrag15X]

Longtrain,

If you make a couple of more trips North you should have a Master or High Master in Mid-Range also!!

Those folks at TournOps will go out of their way for you as long as the paper work was sent in.

Hope to see you guys this summer, as July 11th is the Adirondack Mid-Range F-Class Championship.

 

[nhm16]

I just shot my first match ever this past weekend, a 1000 yard match at my local club. F-classers made up over 3/4s of the shooters there yesterday. There's no second class status here. BTW I had a blast, and can't wait for the next match.

Where's that? Any results........

Bayou Rifles in Houston. Just their local monthly match. Sorry, no results, other than I didn't win ;D

 

[xtightg]

Hi George
I have found the same situation in New Zealand the old full bore crowd don't seem to have time for scope shooters.
We will prevail who shoots in the real world with a sling and a silly leather jacket.
We can also hunt with our practical rifles which I do.
Kirsten and I usually beat them score wise too. Sako TRG 22, Schmidt and Bender 5-25 x 56.
We do have the advantage of a Sinclair bi-pod and rear bag still fun though.
Should see their faces when we out shoot them out to 1000 yards in shorts and t-shirts.
George NZ

 

[Longtrain]

Mike:

We will make it north this year. I know I told you before, your club runs a nice match, well organized and enjoyable. Anyone that thinks that F Class is a flash in the pan should see how may shooters show for your matches.

They come in all flavors, guys with tricked out guns, to the hunter shooting their 308 off a bi-pod, giving F Class a try. Most importantly, the numbers speak well for the popularity and growth of F Class.

See you soon,

Tony

 

[Taildrag15X]

Thanks for the kind words!

 

[navyrad8r]

As a service rifle shooter i am glad to see more folks at the range regardless of what they pull the trigger on. I think F class has brought more folks to the shooting sports. and has brought advances in technology.All shooter need to respect the other disciplines and be glad there is new blood in the sport and not worry about the blood type. Clubs need to clear about opportunities for awards with f class shooters and try to accomodate the largest growing section of our sport. I recently shot a 3x600, i was one of 6 service rifle shooters, and 1 of 2 shooting an M1. I brough the other M1 shooter with me, it was his first NRA match. We had a blast, half the shooters were F-class and they got their own awards points. I will close by saying if you are a "second class" f classer find a better club to shoot with, if you are a match director treating them as second class shooters resign from your position. No matter what F classers, please dont stop shooting the sport needs EVERYONE in it to stay alive.

 

[FroggyOne2]

Hoo-yah Doc!

I agree.. quit quibleling about what a person shoots.. be happy that they are there...

 

[TX65]

I just shot my first match ever this past weekend, a 1000 yard match at my local club. F-classers made up over 3/4s of the shooters there yesterday. There's no second class status here. BTW I had a blast, and can't wait for the next match.

Where's that? Any results........

Bayou Rifles in Houston. Just their local monthly match. Sorry, no results, other than I didn't win ;D

Glad you enjoyed the match and look forward to seeing you again. 600 yard Match is on the 16th of May...

Bayou has 1000 yard matches 1st Sunday of month and mid range matches that alternate 300 and 600 yards on the 3rd Sunday of every month. Matches run 12 months a year. Sling shooters, FTR and F-Open all welcome.

Each October, Bayou hosts the TSRA Long Range Championship. During winter months, Bayou also adds palma practice matches on top of the normal match schedule.

Of course, Bayou also runs a full 200, 300, 600 x-course match each month

Arne - Purple F-Open Rifle at Bayou

 

[Beau]

I'd like to see an optics class in the regular 3-position Highpower.

Getting old sucks but I don't want to quit Highpower.

 

[memilanuk]

Your wish has been granted... it's called 'Tactical Rifle Class', aka 'Any Sight Match Rifle'. Check the new rules. It's 'legal' to shoot; now you just need to talk a few friends into trying it so the match director will start recognizing it for awards.

 

[zullo74]

Monte is correct. I was just looking it up as he posted. See rule 3.2 and 3.3.2

 

[M14AMU]

F Class shooters are shooters that have become too old and or too fat to hold a rifle up with a sling or snowflake millennials that don't know squat about how to use iron/aperture sights!