Is a recoil lug readly needed??

[JDJones]

I'll be strarting to screw some parts together here soon and was wondering if a recoil lug is realy needed on heavy barreled smaller caliber rifles? I'm gonna be building a Remington M-7 action with a heavy varmint barrel 28" long chambered for 6x47. I have some concerns with the small action supporting that big of a barrel in a laminated stock with typical pillers and Devcon bedding. So I was thinking that i would make a V-block that would support the 4" of full shank barrel and front part of the action, the block would be screwed to the front action hole and two other screws in the barrel shank,their by free floating 24" of barrel and the action from the mag well back.
I ask about the recoil lug because it would be alot easier to make a stronger block without having to inlet it for the recoil lug.
Another option I was considering was just using two realy big pillers, like a 1.250" in from and a .750 in the back then fully bedding the action around them with Devcon steel putty.

Any of you guys ever fool with type of setup or have any ideas about it? am I over worrying about the barrel weight and the action strength??
This is gonna be my first all out target/LR varmint gun and I'd like it to be competitive in some F-class and maybe some informal BR shootes as well as maybe taking a dirt poodel at 1K

 

[skinnj1]

JD-

Why don't you make a thicker recoil lug,1-2.5")and surface grind it and thread the bottom for a third "action" screw. This technique has been used by others including the Crane NSW to help address the long barrel concerns you mention.

Just a thought...

 

[AlNyhus]

I would suggest using an action sleeve. Joh Loh and Russ Haydon both offer sleeves that are externally identical to a Stolle Panda with an integral recoil lug. The ones John Loh makes are the original 'Speedy' sleeves sold in the past by Speedy Gonzales' shop and were available for the Model 7's as well as the 700's. The ones I saw at Russ Haydon's had an integral Weaver style rail on the top.

Here's link to a pic. of the 'Speedy' sleeve. It's from his old website from before he closed, but hopefully this will help.

Good shootin'. -Al

Panda footprint sleeve.

 

[5OclockCharlie]

I watched a video once with Darrell Holland installing his Barrel 'V' block bedding system.
Basically the barrel is fitted to the action with no recoil lug between the tenon shoulder and the action. The first 4" or so of the barrel is left cylindrical then steps down with a shoulder and is threaded for a barrel nut. a 1/4-28 blind hole is tapped on the underside of the cylindrical portion to mount the rifle to the stock, and a recoil lug is fitted on the shoulder with a barrel nut.
When assembled the recoil lug bears on the front of an aluminum 'V' block that has been epoxy bedded into the stock, and the action and the forward portion of the barrel are free floating.

I don't know if this is what your looking for but it seems to fit the bill.

Because a picture is worth more than any of my words, I've captured a few screen shots from the video to interpret what I was trying to say

 

[tmbryant]

With a barrel block system, there is no need for a recoil lug. The sole purpose of a recoil lug is to prevent the action from moving rearward under recoil in the stock. I've heard of people building rifles in light calibers and leaving out the recoil lug, but I've never done it. IMO without a recoil lug on a regular barreled action, the action will move eventually under steady recoil. If it moves back against the guard screws then that would cause problems. I once built a skeleton wood stock with a Stolle Panda action and had pillars fitted tight against the guard screw holes on the inside of the holes. The rifle would not shoot. Drilling out the pillars for clearance on the guard screws made the rifle shoot.

 

[JDJones]

Their are probably a dozen ways to skin this cat but I have decide to simply bed the action the conventional way with pillers and bedding under the shank of the barrel. I'll be using a 3/4" piller i the rear and a 1.25" piller in the front. The rear piller will be holding the action in place under the trigger guard which will be screwed in placeby the front screw intop the wood only. The front piller will be fully surrounded by ALOT of bedding the bedding will be 1" deep and 1.75" wide and extend from the front of the trigger group to 3" in front of the action. This action has a Davidson singleshot follower glued in place so the whole mag well will be filled with bedding.

I'm going to add a good bit of atomized SS powder to the Devcon Steel Putty so that its glue to steel ratio is very low, just enought to set up hard,I'm testing that now) and the action screws have been custom made, the rear action screw on the M-7 comes from the factory way undersized, it has been drilled and tapped for 1/4-28+.010" like the front which was retapped,the screws are made from 3/8" 17-4 SS flat torx head screws with 82 deg taper, they have been cut down and single point cut to a snug 1/4-28+.009" thread and hardened the screws fit into the action with zero detectible play and are clean as glass.

The purpose of this gun is to make tiny little groups at 600 and 1000yds with 115gr Berger bullets. but still weigh in the 17lb glass. Personaly i think that I'm way over thinking and way over engineering this project but its gonna be my first run a target comps and I'd like it to be built to be able to hang with the best

 

[varmint]

I think you are going to put a lot of stress on the two screws, but I would like to know how it works for you, keep use posted on it. Tim

 

[Clark]

The recoil of a .223 with 35 gr bullets is so low, I do not even bother bedding the barreled action to the stock until I shoot it.

Especially with a bull barrel, there is just not enough force to move the wood to metal connection made by clamping with the action screws.

But with a 30-06, 180 gr bullets, and a sporter barrel, I get that bedding behind the recoil lug just right. I put in pillars so I can tighten the action screw so hard they would squish a stock.

When I bang on the barrel, I want that 30-06 barrel to ring with the stock like a tuning fork for seconds.

Where is the cut off?
Somewhere between a 14 pound 6mmPPC and a 14 pound 30BR.