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Interest in Weatherby Mark V actions?

If you have ever messed around with a Remington 788, you soon discover that you were lucky if half of those 9 locking lugs even made contact.

Of course, we would hope that a multi-thousand dollar Mk5 Weatherby would be machined with considerably higher standards than a $178 REM 788. Wouldn’t we?;)
@Tommie has a 788 with 100% contact on all 9 lugs and his buddy has one too
 
Dusty, there is also the matter of the material a manufacturer will use in their actions.

I would be curious as to what brand of action you have in that picture.

The manufactures that are using 416 stainless are doing it for one reason. Machinability. The advent of Computer Aid Design and Computer Aid Machining along with 416 stainless has resulted in everybody and his grandmother making actions.

But regardless of the glossy ads, there is no way that a 416 action will ever hold up to extreme pressure as one machined from 17-4 PH or a top quality Crome Moly, or even a Chrome Moly Nickel.

There is more involved with material strength levels than simple Tensile/Yield numbers. I have always believed that ductility as measured by Charpy V Notch is just as important. In this department, 416 is not in the same league.
Agreed. I am leary of any 17-4 unless the heat treatment is also specified. For an application with high dynamic loading that is cyclical in nature, anything less than 1150 is suspect to fracture. Yeah, the tensile is lower, but there is more ductility to resist fracture and crack propagation the higher you take it.

To the overall comment, this is from someone without significant action experience, the issue I see is getting consistent contact and contact area for all lugs between the action and bolt, be it 2, 3, 5, or 9. That is easier on a 2 lug vs the rest, especially when you have the lug taper taking up space. The only real advantage I see on a MKV is bolt throw.

This is my layman's opinion, so I am open to changing it.
 
This was at its time, an elitist rifle and cartridge company. I don’t think there’s a 1% chance Weatherby would sell just its actions. They don’t see the Mark V as a collection of general purpose parts.

The receiver is forged and machined, flat bottomed, chrome-moly, setting out to be the strongest action made, and to me it’s reminiscent of naval artillery breech designs, with many, small area threads or lugs protecting capitol ships the country deemed it cannot afford to replace. Those cannons spared no expense and adhered, seemingly, to the idea that only short, not long, protrusions are strong for their surface area, (steel positioned externally to the source of a bend isn’t adding strength.)

As with the cartridge shape, size and the deluxe stock, the 9 lug action and huge, fluted bolt basically dared an imitator to come find out for himself just how hard and expensive this rifle would be to equal or better, at its price.

Even though it’s perfect for your wildcat, I don’t think Weatherby, given a choice, would want their actions attached to anything originating from another source, viewing it as a dilution.

Chuck Hawks said:

Weatherby Mark V Deluxe

Weatherby Mark V Deluxe
Mark V Deluxe. Illustration courtesy of Weatherby, Inc.
Roy Weatherby introduced the Mark V in 1959 as "The World's Strongest Bolt Action." It is stronger than any other sporting rifle with which I am familiar and certainly much stronger than the Mannlicher-Schoenauer. The Mark V action has proven capable of withstanding pressures up to 200,000 CUP, far beyond the melting point of the brass case it contains.

The Deluxe was the original version of the Mark V and it remains the "quintessential Weatherby." Mark V deluxe rifles are supplied with AA grade walnut stocks, high luster blued metal finish and a rose wood forend tip and grip cap set off by Maplewood line spacers. There is a trademark white diamond inlay in the pistol grip cap and a durable high gloss finish shows off the wood to maximum advantage. It is a very fancy looking rifle.

The Weatherby Mark V action is a front locking, cock on opening, turn bolt repeater. It has been described as a "modified Mauser 98" type, but it is really a unique action. Instead of using two large front locking lugs that require a 90 degree bolt rotation to unlock, the Mark V uses nine smaller locking lugs arranged in three rows and spaced for a 54-degree bolt rotation. This makes it easier for the bolt handle to clear low mounted scopes and speeds cycling.

To eliminate the play and potential for binding characteristic of Mauser 98 type actions when the bolt is fully withdrawn, the Weatherby's machined, one-piece bolt body (including the bolt handle) is round and nearly the same diameter as the hole through the receiver rings in which it slides. The bolt head is rebated (smaller in diameter than the bolt body) with short locking lugs of body diameter. The bolt is fluted and there is a machined steel shroud at the rear of the bolt to prevent escaping gases from exiting the rear of the bolt into the shooter's face in the event of a blown case. In addition, there are three gas escape vents in the side of the bolt body.

The Mark V is a push feed action. The extractor is a substantial, flush-fitting claw at the front of the bolt and the ejector is of the plunger variety in the bolt face. Whenever it is expedient, you can easily load a cartridge directly into the chamber without running it through the magazine.

The bolt handle is smooth with a round knob and protrudes far enough from the side of the rifle to allow rapid operation. When locked closed, the bolt knob is positioned directly over the trigger. Because of the smoothness of its full diameter bolt, short 54-degree rotation and perfectly positioned bolt knob, the Weatherby Mark V is the fastest bolt action I have ever used for repeat shots.

The forged and machined chrome-moly receiver has a flat bottom and incorporates a large, integral recoil lug. The whole action is built for strength; the bolt and receiver weigh 35.9 ounces. The recessed bolt head, barrel and front receiver ring surround a chambered cartridge's head and constitute the famous "Three Rings of Steel."
 
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Agreed. I am leary of any 17-4 unless the heat treatment is also specified. For an application with high dynamic loading that is cyclical in nature, anything less than 1150 is suspect to fracture. Yeah, the tensile is lower, but there is more ductility to resist fracture and crack propagation the higher you take it.

To the overall comment, this is from someone without significant action experience, the issue I see is getting consistent contact and contact area for all lugs between the action and bolt, be it 2, 3, 5, or 9. That is easier on a 2 lug vs the rest, especially when you have the lug taper taking up space. The only real advantage I see on a MKV is bolt throw.

This is my layman's opinion, so I am open to changing it.
I would be curious to know at what temperature Bat treats their 17-4. I understand they do their own in house hardenning.

I drilled and tapped my Bat M for two more scope rail screws, and I’m guessing between H1059 and H1150. I need to take it over to Lone Star Heat Treating, who has a computerized RC tester, and see.
 
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This was at its time, an elitist rifle and cartridge company. I don’t think there’s a 1% chance Weatherby would sell just its actions. They don’t see the Mark V as a collection of general purpose parts.

The receiver is forged and machined, flat bottomed, chrome-moly, setting out to be the strongest action made, and to me it’s reminiscent of naval artillery breech designs, with many, small area threads or lugs protecting capitol ships the country deemed it cannot afford to replace. Those cannons spared no expense and adhered, seemingly, to the idea that only short, not long, protrusions are strong for their surface area, (steel positioned externally to the source of a bend isn’t adding strength.)

As with the cartridge shape, size and the deluxe stock, the 9 lug action and huge, fluted bolt basically dared an imitator to come find out for himself just how hard and expensive this rifle would be to equal or better, at its price.

Even though it’s perfect for your wildcat, I don’t think Weatherby, given a choice, would want their actions attached to anything originating from another source, viewing it as a dilution.

Chuck Hawks said:

Weatherby Mark V Deluxe

Weatherby Mark V Deluxe
Mark V Deluxe. Illustration courtesy of Weatherby, Inc.
Roy Weatherby introduced the Mark V in 1959 as "The World's Strongest Bolt Action." It is stronger than any other sporting rifle with which I am familiar and certainly much stronger than the Mannlicher-Schoenauer. The Mark V action has proven capable of withstanding pressures up to 200,000 CUP, far beyond the melting point of the brass case it contains.

The Deluxe was the original version of the Mark V and it remains the "quintessential Weatherby." Mark V deluxe rifles are supplied with AA grade walnut stocks, high luster blued metal finish and a rose wood forend tip and grip cap set off by Maplewood line spacers. There is a trademark white diamond inlay in the pistol grip cap and a durable high gloss finish shows off the wood to maximum advantage. It is a very fancy looking rifle.

The Weatherby Mark V action is a front locking, cock on opening, turn bolt repeater. It has been described as a "modified Mauser 98" type, but it is really a unique action. Instead of using two large front locking lugs that require a 90 degree bolt rotation to unlock, the Mark V uses nine smaller locking lugs arranged in three rows and spaced for a 54-degree bolt rotation. This makes it easier for the bolt handle to clear low mounted scopes and speeds cycling.

To eliminate the play and potential for binding characteristic of Mauser 98 type actions when the bolt is fully withdrawn, the Weatherby's machined, one-piece bolt body (including the bolt handle) is round and nearly the same diameter as the hole through the receiver rings in which it slides. The bolt head is rebated (smaller in diameter than the bolt body) with short locking lugs of body diameter. The bolt is fluted and there is a machined steel shroud at the rear of the bolt to prevent escaping gases from exiting the rear of the bolt into the shooter's face in the event of a blown case. In addition, there are three gas escape vents in the side of the bolt body.

The Mark V is a push feed action. The extractor is a substantial, flush-fitting claw at the front of the bolt and the ejector is of the plunger variety in the bolt face. Whenever it is expedient, you can easily load a cartridge directly into the chamber without running it through the magazine.

The bolt handle is smooth with a round knob and protrudes far enough from the side of the rifle to allow rapid operation. When locked closed, the bolt knob is positioned directly over the trigger. Because of the smoothness of its full diameter bolt, short 54-degree rotation and perfectly positioned bolt knob, the Weatherby Mark V is the fastest bolt action I have ever used for repeat shots.

The forged and machined chrome-moly receiver has a flat bottom and incorporates a large, integral recoil lug. The whole action is built for strength; the bolt and receiver weigh 35.9 ounces. The recessed bolt head, barrel and front receiver ring surround a chambered cartridge's head and constitute the famous "Three Rings of Steel."
Here is a nice video that probably explains why you can’t purchase an action by it’s self.

One of the interesting items is they achieve the final head spacing by machining the bolt face.

 
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One of the interesting items is they do the final head spacing by machining the bolt face.

I know they said that. (I cringed there and the grinding wheel spark shower - I own these guns.) The video seemed to show it, as well. But to my primitive mind, that’s the single worst idea I can fathom, and I hope it was just an enthusiastic video talker who got carried away on the general theme of hand massaged guns, but I doubt it. (It was said when discussing the aesthetic timing of flutes, and if they start shaving the shoulder, and then the bolt face by the same amount, all because they want the flute to stop straight up, then I’m philosophically opposed).

If the bolt head depths are all different, is the firing pin protrusion different on all these bolts? So there’s no standard firing pin replacement? None of the bolts are actually interchangeable gun to gun? There’s no reliable Weatherby spec tenon dimension? It’s just “whatever” plus or minus up to a 6th of a rotation?

I didn’t go to gunsmith school, but isn’t it taught that you alter the consumable barrel, not the action and bolt?

While I usually like candor, I have to say, seeing Nightforce test scopes, seeing new Ferraris driven over alternating speed bumps in Maranello, fast, seeing doctors test ACL ligaments, everything I have ever done to a rental car, … these are not our good sides to the camera, as they say.
 
If the bolt head depths are all different, is the firing pin protrusion different on all these bolts? So there’s no standard firing pin replacement? None of the bolts are actually interchangeable gun to gun? There’s no reliable Weatherby spec tenon dimension?
Fair points.
A few thousandths difference either way with FP protrusion isn't any sort of issue with a hunting rifle, and even with less rigorous tolerances of production machining ops it shouldn't vary more than that.

Some production rifles, like Tikkas, are able to achieve greater tolerances (+/- .001) but that's the exception, not the norm. Tenon dimensions are published (.701), but headspace is determined from the totality of the boltface to the back of the go gage. All of the following need to be precisely controlled

Receiver ring to lug abutments
Boltface to back of lugs
Tenon length
Chamber depth

Variations in any of these dimensions will add or subtract clearance. I'm in awe that some are able to control all of these so precisely that bolts can be swapped- as well as shouldered barrels.
Until the last few years, it was never possible to swap bolts and be guaranteed acceptable headspace.
That's changing...
 
Ken, you might check over on LRH. I recall that member JE Custom is a big fan of the Mk V action, and had used it often. I remember reading his remarks that suggested they needed very little, if any truing.
I believe he passed away. I'm not 100% sure, but I seem to remember that. I hope someone can correct me if I'm wrong. He built some tack drivers on Mark V actions.
 
My Mark V customs (300 Dakota, 300 RUM and 22-250) shoot every bit as well as my Defiance and Borden actions. If a good builder puts it together it will shoot. I'm talking LRH not so much BR.
 
I had a member on another forum comment.
" Why would they sell the actions, when they have a custom shop?"

I tried to get the custom shop to build me one of their discontinued Mark V Ultra Lightweights in 257 WBY.

I was told by tech at Weatherby they only build on what "is currently available".

Told tech that they shouldn't call it a custom shop!
 
I would be curious to know at what temperature Bat treats their 17-4. I understand they do their own in house hardenning.

I drilled and tapped my Bat M for two more scope rail screws, and I’m guessing between H1059 and H1150. I need to take it over to Lone Star Heat Treating, who has a computerized RC tester, and see.
Not to derail...

I'd be interested to know if they final machine post heat treatment. I've seen PH SST (mostly 17-4/630) move quite a bit after final treatment such that I typically recommend to our purchasing group buying material in the final treated state if we can machine it properly. But, this is production parts where a second machining step isn't desired, and we already have machine tools for 4340, Inconel, Ti, etc.
 
I'd have to say it depends on the material and the way it's heat treated/hardened.

We have hardened steel shaft that depending upon diameter we can cut 1-3 before bandsaw blade is toast. That with coolant.
We chamfer with a grinder, and the drill for the locking bolt hole is a carbide tipped body.
Tip lasts about 5 holes.
 
Not to derail...

I'd be interested to know if they final machine post heat treatment. I've seen PH SST (mostly 17-4/630) move quite a bit after final treatment such that I typically recommend to our purchasing group buying material in the final treated state if we can machine it properly. But, this is production parts where a second machining step isn't desired, and we already have machine tools for 4340, Inconel, Ti, etc.
We machine quite a bit of 5” and 6” AQUAMET 17 Boat Shafting, which is 17-4 at H-1150. The bars come center less ground to size.

It machines pretty good, more tough than hard. The stuff is loaded with stress. All we do is machine the prop taper and coupling fit. Often after marching the prop taper and threading the end, it will exhibit runout after released due to stress relieving.

Straightening it is a real pain. It has a intense memory.
 

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