It's not that I don't like savages but it gets confusing different bolt lug measurements, small shank, large shank, center feed, staggered feed and so on and so forth. Remington's are pretty much all the same makes for much easier to find oem parts and allows aftermarket manufacturers to offer parts with much less confusion.
installing a ptg bolt face. firing pin to short..???
- Thread starter chevytruck_83
- Start date
I fixed both my Remington's I put a savage bolt head on along with nut on both. Now to the problem Dave told what you need to do. Dave if you read this have you ever thought about leaving the ejector hole out of the heads. Good Shooting Larry
Chevy Truck_83:
Savage has made two Model 12 actions over time. About 5 years ago savage made firing pins that were (in front of the firing pin stop) .120" before being tapered to fit through the bolt face. When the Ultra Mag chamberings came out Savage went to the Larger shank tenon (1.225")and a smaller firing pin diameter (.090"). I assume the reason for this was their engineers wanted a smaller hole in the bolt head retaining pin for added strength. The larger tenon and smaller firing pin became the standard in the Model 12 PTA actions. Savage currently makes two lengths firing pins one for the short action and a longer one for the long actions. The firing pins are threaded and both the bolt stop in the front and the cocking piece in the back can be adjusted. Both the cocking piece and bolt stop have locking washers that have to have the spring tension taken off of them before they can be adjusted. I have never seen a savage firing pin when adjusted properly that would not be long enough to fire the rifle. Savage bolt heads also were changed and the Model 12 PTA actions will not accept the older and larger firing pins. Savage bolt lugs vary in lengths the STD that comes on a model 12 PTA has lugs that are from .440" to .442" in length. The PT&G (STD) replacement bolt head I measured yesterday had bolt lugs .4405" in length. The Standard Savage Firing pin should have no problem adjusting for correct firing pin protrusion. Now if you have replaced the Savage bolt body with a PT&G bolt body you may (will) have to machine some off the back to adjust for primary extraction. I have never had one that was too long for the firing pin to work but this may be an issue with your situation. I have had to shorten the bolt bodies as much as .060" to get the primary extraction right. Hope this may have cleared up some of your issues.
Nat Lambeth
Savage has made two Model 12 actions over time. About 5 years ago savage made firing pins that were (in front of the firing pin stop) .120" before being tapered to fit through the bolt face. When the Ultra Mag chamberings came out Savage went to the Larger shank tenon (1.225")and a smaller firing pin diameter (.090"). I assume the reason for this was their engineers wanted a smaller hole in the bolt head retaining pin for added strength. The larger tenon and smaller firing pin became the standard in the Model 12 PTA actions. Savage currently makes two lengths firing pins one for the short action and a longer one for the long actions. The firing pins are threaded and both the bolt stop in the front and the cocking piece in the back can be adjusted. Both the cocking piece and bolt stop have locking washers that have to have the spring tension taken off of them before they can be adjusted. I have never seen a savage firing pin when adjusted properly that would not be long enough to fire the rifle. Savage bolt heads also were changed and the Model 12 PTA actions will not accept the older and larger firing pins. Savage bolt lugs vary in lengths the STD that comes on a model 12 PTA has lugs that are from .440" to .442" in length. The PT&G (STD) replacement bolt head I measured yesterday had bolt lugs .4405" in length. The Standard Savage Firing pin should have no problem adjusting for correct firing pin protrusion. Now if you have replaced the Savage bolt body with a PT&G bolt body you may (will) have to machine some off the back to adjust for primary extraction. I have never had one that was too long for the firing pin to work but this may be an issue with your situation. I have had to shorten the bolt bodies as much as .060" to get the primary extraction right. Hope this may have cleared up some of your issues.
Nat Lambeth
ill try to take some measurements today. its back together and working great with the savage 308 bolt face so I hate to take it apart again but just throwing a number out there id say its close to 1/4" to short. I disassembled the whole firing pin assembly. lock washers etc and there isn't enough adjustment on it. its a short action newer made model 12. has accutrigger and everything.
The Savage Factory Short Action Firing Pin (small diameter .095") is 4.390" long.
The small portion (.090) of the Savage Short Action firing pin is 1.620"
The portion (smallest end) of the firing pin that is turned down to .066" is .420" long.
The Savage Bolt head is 1.325 from the back to the bolt face.
When I bottom out the Savage SA firing pin in the Savage Factory bolt head it protrudes .133"
A PT&G Savage (STD) bolt head is 1.329" from the back to the bolt face.
When I bottom out the firing pin in the PT&G bolt head it protrudes .110"
For the primer to go bang the firing pin should protrude .040"-.050"
The Savage SA firing pin will work on the (.385) .223 bolt heads and the (.480) STD bolt head.
The Factory Savage SA firing pin will not work with the Magnum Bolt heads.
The Savage Magnum Bolt head is 1.425" from the back to the bolt face.
The Firing pin for the magnums has a 1.615"section that is .096" tapered to .066"
The Savage Factory Long action firing pin is 5.250" over all length. The smaller portion is 1.615", and the tip is .420".
Hope this was informative.
Nat Lambeth
The small portion (.090) of the Savage Short Action firing pin is 1.620"
The portion (smallest end) of the firing pin that is turned down to .066" is .420" long.
The Savage Bolt head is 1.325 from the back to the bolt face.
When I bottom out the Savage SA firing pin in the Savage Factory bolt head it protrudes .133"
A PT&G Savage (STD) bolt head is 1.329" from the back to the bolt face.
When I bottom out the firing pin in the PT&G bolt head it protrudes .110"
For the primer to go bang the firing pin should protrude .040"-.050"
The Savage SA firing pin will work on the (.385) .223 bolt heads and the (.480) STD bolt head.
The Factory Savage SA firing pin will not work with the Magnum Bolt heads.
The Savage Magnum Bolt head is 1.425" from the back to the bolt face.
The Firing pin for the magnums has a 1.615"section that is .096" tapered to .066"
The Savage Factory Long action firing pin is 5.250" over all length. The smaller portion is 1.615", and the tip is .420".
Hope this was informative.
Nat Lambeth
very helpful. ill check my ptg bolt face measurements against what you came up with.
I took this picture to give a better idea where I stand. I turned the adjustment to allow Max pin engagement then inserted it into the bolt face. then i ran the adjuster to where it hit the rear of the bolt face. then took this pic. after measuring everything. Max pin length= 1.435" ptg bolt face=1.52"+.045" pin engagement=1.565". this leaves me. 130" short.
Attachments
I just changed one of my old pre accutrigger long actions out. My bolts looked just the same as yours do. I had to cut the keyway from the bolt body and adjust the protrusion. I set the protrusion at .045 which I may shorten since I think its a bit much and set the spring distance at 2.600 If I remember right. I still got to work on my primary extraction but I have it shooting for now.. I think that PT&G is working hard to get things out. Kathleen told me 5 weeks and in 5 weeks mine came in. Even with a CC machine issue. With all the shooting/gunsmithing industry backup. I am very impressed! Keep up the good work Dave! I cant wait to see one of the complete bolts. Now if you could just get a trigger in the works... Regards Matt
I may have someone with a lathe bore the inside out to match the factory dimensions encluding the taper which to me. seems to help center the pin to some extent.
chevytruck_83
I just waited 5 months for a short action bolt head from PT&G and had the same problems.
I don't think your problem is the firing pin but the length of the new bolt head.
They sent me a long action bolt head and not the short action one I ordered.
As I see in your photos, the PT&G bolt head is longer by about .200"
For the short action bolt head, the length of the lug should be .442" with a shank length of 1.000"
The long action bolt head has a lug .500" with a shank length of 1.125"
http://www.pacifictoolandgauge.com/savage%20performance.htm
Some of the older Savages had a dished bolt face, that has been fixed on the newer rifles.
After comparing the two bolt heads for fit and finish, why get anything other than the Savage.
Good luck on your build
I just waited 5 months for a short action bolt head from PT&G and had the same problems.
I don't think your problem is the firing pin but the length of the new bolt head.
They sent me a long action bolt head and not the short action one I ordered.
As I see in your photos, the PT&G bolt head is longer by about .200"
For the short action bolt head, the length of the lug should be .442" with a shank length of 1.000"
The long action bolt head has a lug .500" with a shank length of 1.125"
http://www.pacifictoolandgauge.com/savage%20performance.htm
Some of the older Savages had a dished bolt face, that has been fixed on the newer rifles.
After comparing the two bolt heads for fit and finish, why get anything other than the Savage.
Good luck on your build
Dave L Kiff
Site $$ Sponsor
We have been shipping about 30 heads per day tiring to get caught up . All the help Nathanial and the rest of you have given us sure helps . We have added different widths and Stem lengths . Also we have just started shipping the Nat Lambeth Performance Bolt kit with custom threaded handle . This set up is a nice addition to our oversize fluted bolt body and Bolt heads. Nat is helping us get his new improved bolt, firing pin assembly / dis-assembly fixture out also . Thanks again for all your help Dave Kiff
Dave L Kiff
Site $$ Sponsor
Also we have assigned part numbers and descriptions to our bolt head's . So you wont have to guess or have us guess what you need. For the folks that would like a deleted ejection port , we will now machine them without it. View here http://www.pacifictoolandgauge.com/savage%20performance.htm
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