Install chambered barrel?

[dawe11]

I have a Savage PTA single shot barreled action and would like to change the barrel.
I do not have a go or no go guage for the new pre chambered barrel, but have another gun in the same caliber as the new barrel,20BR).
I understand that you can use the fired formed and or bumped case to set the head space?
Any advise would be accepted.

JD

 

[tdboomer]

Buy a gauge or borrow...go to Savageshooters.com forum someone may lend you one for the barrel installation. I was setting a 6br and one of the members loaned me one for my barrel setup. Great bunch of shooters.

 

[Taildrag15X]

I have a Savage PTA single shot barreled action and would like to change the barrel.
I do not have a go or no go guage for the new pre chambered barrel, but have another gun in the same caliber as the new barrel,20BR).
I understand that you can use the fired formed and or bumped case to set the head space?
Any advise would be accepted.

JD

Only a fired case from the barrel that reset the barrel not on the first install. Get the gauges.....do it safely.

 

[fdshuster]

Ditto on the gage: Pacific has the BR gages available, approx. $27 each), well worth it, and you should have it by priority mail in a few days.

 

[Ackman]

A 'gauge' isn't necessary. And you already have one anyway....use a case. And if with a fired case some part of the body is too large for this chamber, then just use a new case. Not a big deal and lots of people have done it that way for a long time. I've done it a bunch of times. Works fine and there's nothing dangerous about it.

 

[butchlambert]

Ackman, I think he needs to do it properly. All brass is not the same. This is the reason that we have headspace gages.
Butch

 

[Ackman]

Ackman, I think he needs to do it properly. All brass is not the same. This is the reason that we have headspace gages.
Butch

Yes Butch, I'm aware that all brass isn't the same.

This isn't even remotely difficult. It's just screwing a barrel on to where the case chambers with no slop. That's all. Read his original post....dawe11 has another 20BR and this new one is barrel #2. He already has fired brass from barrel #1 and I said to use it. Use a fired case from #1 and both guns will be headspaced the same. And even with new brass there's no problem. This is a wildcat cartridge made by necking down a BR case. With a wildcat whether it's a false shoulder or one set back into the original shoulder, that shoulder been put there by a die that's set and will be in a uniform spot.....brass variation isn't a factor. Where the shoulder is on his fired brass may/may not be the same as a headspace gauge. But you don't shoot a headspace gauge anyway, you shoot brasss. This situation isn't making brass conform to a chamber, it's setting a barrel to fit brass that's been made. And this just isn't the big deal that some are trying to make it into, it's sure not worth bickering about. Whatever floats your boat is what you should do. Using a case works beautifully and getting a Savage barrel set takes much less time than it took to write this.

 

[butchlambert]

Ackman, we have different opinions on doing things and that is OK.
Butch

 

[zullo74]

I'm with Ackman on this one. People make way too much of a deal with headspace! A piece of factory brass is a perfect headspace 'go' gage. A piece or two of cellophane tape turns it into a 'no-go' gage. On 30-06 rifles, the 'field' gage is .010' longer than the 'no-go' gage. The military still considers the weapon safe,of course they don't reload).

 

[NorCalMikie]

A piece of 'full length' resized brass works great for setting the headspace on a Savage barrel. You can use a gauge to get it close then snug it up on a piece of brass. The tighter you make it, the less your brass will have to move to fit the chamber when it's fired. Less brass movement makes for longer brass life.
Adjust your barrel as needed.
After the brass if fired a few times you might need a body die once in a while. Couldn't be easier.

 

[JR19703]

I have found that not all gauges are even the same I could be wrong though. Use the brass if you want the only problem is you dont want to crush the shoulder, but then your not a Gorilla. The tighter the better on tolerances your brass will thank you and hardly a need to fire form?

 

[Dgd6mm]

This is true all gauges are not the same. Many people are using brass with great results.

 

[robbor]

I like PTG but their shipping on small items is a tad steep at $12 so your gauges are likely to cost you $40 they also dont hold orders to ship togather and dont seem to notify of BO items so its very easy to end up with $25 shipping on 2 small items. Ive used cases that were fired then resized so their headspace was set by my dies. Also many of the reamer rental houses list gauges for rent at $5 if your not likely to change barrels again for a long time.
Here is a little comparison of headspace gauge heights;
Headspacegauges

 

[Rustystud]

Keep Ackmans,Dgd6mm,NorCalMikie and Zullos names and address if you headspace it off a piece of brass, because you might need it. That methodology completely violates SAAAMI/CIP standards. If you have a case seperation and you or someone else gets hurt or killed you will have a product liability case that the best lawyer in the world can't defend. There is good and bad advice given on this board. Sometimes shortcuts are not worth the consequences.

Obviously you are not a licensed gunsmith or manufacture and don't cary professional liability insurance. I will tell you if you read your homeowners liability clauses and any riders that you may have they don't cover any modifications to firearms or explosive devices.

Butch and others have given you good advice.

Good Luck
Nat Lambeth

 

[Dgd6mm]

Nope,to the best of my knowledge we are not Gunsmith's,But I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night! Seriously I stated two true facts, dawe11 get some gauges and some help from somebody that's qualified to show you how to set the headspace on a Savage. After you do that the rest is up to you, go over to SavageShooter.com and check for somebody in your area. Like the gunsmith said Good Luck.

 

[Ackman]

Rusty you're making this into a much bigger deal than it is. Maybe you're trying to impress people with how great you think you are. No I'm not a 'licensed gunsmith', haven't stayed at Holiday Inn for quite awhile......just someone with rifles who plays musical barrels every so often. Hardest thing about changing a Savage barrel is breaking that nut loose as it comes from the factory. You don't need to be a 'licensed' anything, and there are 'licensed gunsmiths' that I wouldn't let work on any of my rifles.

Read the original post again. This is a wildcat...... 6BR brass is necked to 20. The shoulder is wherever the die puts it and each one is in exactly the same place. There's no headspace variation as with factory brass. Dawe already has another 20BR. Headspacing a Savage is real easy and doing it off a piece of brass is stupid obvious. Sounds real impressive to throw around stuff like 'casehead separation,' so please explain how that's any more likely to happen when using one of his cases than when using a gauge? His brass is all the same, gauges vary.

 

[Rustystud]

Ackman:

This forum is read by many. Some very experienced and many not so experienced. There is a legal term called 'reckless disreguard', especially in the state of this websites orgin California. Yes, here in America we have the freedom to do many things. One of those things is sue one another. There is case law already on the books where folks have used brass metalic cartridge case to set headspace off of and there have been catistophic failures. 'SAAMI' the SMALL ARMS and Ammunitions Manufactures Institute establishes the industry standards. They include in their standards 'no modern firearm is to be assembled without the use of 'steel gauges.'

Yes, I may be a smart a_ _, I most likely change more barrels per month than you will in your lifetime. I rebarrel rifles as a business.

I think Savage has made a wonderful design that allows us to change boltheads, and barrels/cartridges/calibers with relative ease. I encourage anyone who owns a Savage to learn the proper way of changing their rifles bolthead and barrel. With freedom comes responsibility.

About a year ago there was another poster on this website who advocated removing and replacing Savage barrel nuts with a hammer and screw driver. The barrel nuts were not designed to be removed or replaced by this method. I have presonally seen Savage barrel nuts warped, cracked and broken by being removed or replaced by this methodology.

I can tell you that Mr. Colburn CEO and Mr. Degrande Manager of Operations of Savage Arms cringe every time some such as your self post such recklessly on a public forum.

I just hope you get an opportunity to read this before Paul,owner/Moderator) of the website removes it.

I will not address this post again, you have been given both some tounge and cheek advice and some very smart and direct advice. Where you take is strictly up to you.

Nat Lambeth

 

[Ackman]

Rusty,

I didn't say anything about a hammer and screwdriver, never have.

Regarding this lawsuit you mention.....the existence of a lawsuit doesn't mean a lot. It's always the other guy's fault. But if there was really a 'castastrophic failure', I don't believe for even a moment that it was because of someone using a fired case to set headspace. It was caused by someone's screw up. So IF there really was an accident, please post a link or tell where it can be found.

Now I'm sure you're a big-deal gunsmith, otherwise you wouldn't be talking yourself up here. Bein' a big-deal gunsmith.....as a public service to everyone, please tell me and a whole bunch of other Savage owners out there who use this method, EXACTLY HOW is it dangerous to set headspace using a fired case? WHY / HOW is it more accurate to use a gauge that can vary from manufacturer to manufacturer, but somehow less accurate to the point of danger when using a fired case? Please explain this.

 

[Ackman]

Allright, I can think of a way to have problems.....if the brass is too large. If caseneck dia. is bigger than the chamber neck from not being sized after firing in a chamber with a larger neck than the new one. Or using a case with unturned neck in a tight-neck chamber. Or if the case had been fired in a larger chamber and the body was too big for this new one. Trying to screw the barrel onto a case with too-large neck or body would make it stop too soon and mean massively too much headspace. It would be a huge screw-up. Also not a non-issue with a little common sense. Just use a new or sized piece of brass with the neck expanded to loaded dia......then run it into the new chamber before install and check the fit. Not difficult.