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inconsistent powder throws - Harrell's?

CT10ring

CT10ring

Loading with my Harrell's (gray painted body) for 1st time in a year or so.
(After moving - now in a very dry low humidity climate).
It normally is very very accurate and repeatable - for many years. It looks fine...

Throwing charges of 24.8g VVN140 for .223 rem.

checked 1st 10 using digi scale after powder settled etc.
all good. 24.8g

I loaded 75 rds., last 20 looked underfilled, so I dumped powder from these cases and got weights of 21g-25g - not good.

Could this be a static problem? powder is a bit chunky but not overly so.

thx...
 
If N140 is like N150 it is awful for bridging, the drops will be all over the place if it's the same.

I used to throw charges with my Harrell's for my 223s also. Then I got one of Adam's auto tricklers. This was before he came out with the throw attachment. I used it throwing charges low and trickling up for my 308 F-TR loads. When you are weighing every load you start seeing just how much variance there is. It was an eye opener, I always thought the throw was more precise than that. ± about a grain more or less was about the best I could consistently get with it. The bridging is when you get one that's way low and the next way high.
 
good info, that seems exactly the same issue. I ended up throwing light & trickling up...
I have a new RCBS chargemaster. Looks like its time to break it out... Pretty sure I used Harrell's for VVN550 too... with good results.
 
My .02 worth. I experienced the same as you did. I called Harrells and made their suggested adjustments. Call them...great people.

(In back of the powder measure; remove the mounting bracket screws you’ll find an Allen screw(?) just SUNG the screw and all will be good.)

I usually weigh to verify, load 14 cases, dump #1 into case; verify the next drop, load 14, etc.

Please verify with Harrels, they talked me thru...
 
cool, thanks. maybe I am overlooking the obvious as well- VVN140 doesn't meter well.
I'll call em! Not to be lazy, I just thought it might be static...
 
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I double tap the handle on the up stroke to settle the powder into the chamber, Helps with consistency.
 
What scale would you recommend for --- less $ than the 2 shown? if you don't mind...
I'm not a benchrest shooter.
Using a RCBS Rangemaster 750 now. pretty basic.
Harrell's is better w/ H322 or the like, btw.
 
The required amount of precision is determined by what you are trying to accomplish. If you are a plinker, then buy some cheap bulk ammo and have fun. If you are a typical hunter, then buy good hunting ammo from the gun shop. If you like to shoot MOA sized groups then hand load and use a good electronic scale with an automatic powder dispenser. If you are an anal benchrest shooter that needs to beat out your shooting buddies then spend the thousands of dollars that it takes to buy the best scale, it isn't necessary but it'll make you feel good knowing that you got down to the last grain in precision drops.

For my kind of shooting (and I'm far more anal than the average guy but not quite as bad as a bencrest shooter) dropping my powder to within a tenth of a grain is precise enough, and that equates to being within two or three granules of the powders that I use so anything more expensive than a Chargemaster isn't really worth spending the money on.
 
Makes perfect sense, info appreciated. My processes / procedures + expectations in my reloading probably do not warrant the use of this type of precision scale, cost notwithstanding, to be honest. good to know tho!
 
rammac said:
The required amount of precision is determined by what you are trying to accomplish. If you are a plinker, then buy some cheap bulk ammo and have fun. If you are a typical hunter, then buy good hunting ammo from the gun shop. If you like to shoot MOA sized groups then hand load and use a good electronic scale with an automatic powder dispenser. If you are an anal benchrest shooter that needs to beat out your shooting buddies then spend the thousands of dollars that it takes to buy the best scale, it isn't necessary but it'll make you feel good knowing that you got down to the last grain in precision drops.

For my kind of shooting (and I'm far more anal than the average guy but not quite as bad as a bencrest shooter) dropping my powder to within a tenth of a grain is precise enough, and that equates to being within two or three granules of the powders that I use so anything more expensive than a Chargemaster isn't really worth spending the money on.
Click to expand...
Sounds good, the law of diminishing returns rules here, my .02 , and maybe to all of accurate shooting. not to mention keeping it all fun.

"In other words, keeping all other factors constant, the additional output gained by another one unit increase of the input variable will eventually be smaller than the additional output gained by the previous increase in input variable. At that point, the diminishing marginal returns take effect."
 
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Powder granule shape and size are what ultimately determines whether a particular powder can be thrown within a useful spread of weights. The other issue is the distance at which you will be shooting. Differences in weight matter less at shorter ranges. Lots of short range benchrest matches have been won with thrown charges, as well as records set. About the coarsest powder that I can throw to +- .1 gr. is 133, and that can be dicey. IMO most don't but many still have done well with that powder throwing charges. There is a lot more to throwing consistent charges than may meet the eye, and the common published advice does not cover the subject well at all. If you are seeing clumping issues you may need to dry the powder. Has it always been stored where it is dry, and in a closed container? Realistically, throwing light and trickling up may be your best option.
 
good info, my 1st use ever of this powder VV N140 (new container) , altho many other VVs used before. I have usually used H335, H322, XBR 8208, VV N133 VV N135.
Guess I'm a bit rusty. Missed the obvious. too coarse :) also, the percentage error in inconsistent charges is larger relatively in a smaller case vs larger, say a 6.5X284. I think.
 
nawahine said:
My .02 worth. I experienced the same as you did. I called Harrells and made their suggested adjustments. Call them...great people.

(In back of the powder measure; remove the mounting bracket screws you’ll find an Allen screw(?) just SUNG the screw and all will be good.)

I usually weigh to verify, load 14 cases, dump #1 into case; verify the next drop, load 14, etc.

Please verify with Harrels, they talked me thru...
Click to expand...

I experienced the same issue with the Pistol powder measure. I noticed inconsistent powder throws. Kind of realized the the more tightness on the clamp would actually change the feeling on the drum handle. I took off the screw and drill hole on the top clamp. I then drilled and tapped and homemade aluminum powder stand I made and bolted it. Problem solved.
 
Ccrider said:
@BoydAllen, just curious, how many throws would you guess it took you to get to +\- .1 consistency?
Click to expand...
First I had to find the right techniques. That was the biggest thing. I have spent a lot of time practicing throwing powder and trying many different ideas...A LOT. For most, a Chargemaster is the way to go. It is just that I mostly shoot a PPC and 133 was the problem powder as far as throwing was concerned. Taking the full group benchrest kit to the range every time is a pain, but that is what I do. The issue was whether I was going to have to haul another box to the range, with the attendant setup, and packing. I managed to avoid it, but just barely. I do not shoot long range, and if I need to load a powder that cannot be accurately thrown I just throw light and trickle. with a tuned scale, and a web cam, I have confidence to consistency within a session of +- .05 grain and for me that is plenty good.
 
While we're discussing powder measures, does anyone know of a powder "baffle/bottle system" for a Harrells?

For the important stuff I throw and trickle but over the course of a pound of powder in the bottle I'll see differences in the amount weighed as the powder gets lower in the bottle.

Someone suggested I use a baffle but I haven't seen one for a harrells.
 
steve123 said:
While we're discussing powder measures, does anyone know of a powder "baffle/bottle system" for a Harrells?

For the important stuff I throw and trickle but over the course of a pound of powder in the bottle I'll see differences in the amount weighed as the powder gets lower in the bottle.

Someone suggested I use a baffle but I haven't seen one for a harrells.
Click to expand...

They have a baffle in them but its advisable to take it out. You can do your own testing but taking it out has helped everybody ive seen
 
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