Inaccuracy of Beginner Scales

[CharlieNC]

I liked the looks of the Hornady too and ordered one. The "slop" at the ends of the pivot was excessive to the extent that zero was not reproducible to within a few tenths. Called Scott Parker to order one of his re-worked beams; he said he tried the Hornady and it was not adequate for tuning. Got a new reworked Redding from him that performs as advertised; ALWAYS comes back to zero, and will detect 1 stick of powder. I've used it for one year with great results. Drop powder with the $25 Lee Perfect, and trickle onto the tuned beam. Fast, simple, on-the-money.

 

[Ringostar]

Catshooter made complete sense with his post. I will also say, don't put faith in a cheaper electronic scale. I started with a RCBS 750. I thought that I wanted more accuracy, so I bought a Gempro 250 and sold the 750 to my son. The Gempro wandered and couldn't give consistent reading no matter how many times a tried calibrating. I then found an old used Ohaus 10-10 at a gun show. It was complete with box and old papers, very yellowed papers I might add. I cleaned it up with rubbing alcohol and tried it out. Wow what a change it made! I struggled before this, but with consistent loads emediately jumped in classifications. Mid range went right to high master and long range to master!

 

[Raythemanroe]

Do you weigh on the same table that your press is on? Small beam scales are easy to bump. I have weighed many time and at the end of my session it didn't re zero.. I would suggest the 10-10 for a beam scale


Ray

 

[BoydAllen]

A little scale story. I told a friend about how easy it is to improve the sensitivity and consistency of beam reloading scales, and although his initial response was negative, I knew that his curiosity and drive toward excellence would eventually get the better of him, and it did. A couple of weeks later he was telling me all about how much better his scale was working. I claim no originality in this. I got the idea from reading about Scott Parker on the internet, quite a few years back, and because I was interested, gave him a call, and asked him about what he does to scales. I have played with various strain gauge scales, and for my purposes, I prefer a tuned balance scale. If I need to use a scale at the range, I have a suitable box, with a sliding tempered glass cover (Plastic caused static problems.). Just for fun, I set up the 505 after I had finished with it, with a web cam on the balancing pointer and scale, and did a little test, with individual pieces of Varget. After carefully zeroing the scale, I added one granule, which caused a slight but visible deflection, and then a second, third and fourth, each causing the beam to move a little bit farther. Then I set the scale to .1 grain, and it came back to balance, with the four pieces of powder on the pan. Not bad for a $40 or so investment....if I do say so. People seem to think that electronic things just have to be better, and while the best of them are great, they have some operating environment needs that may make them unsuitable for certain situations.

 

[michaelnel]

I have not sold my OSparker, and don't intend to. It is a super nice very sensitive scale that works perfectly, near as I can tell. It is just the physical interaction with it that bothers me, my eyes and my neck. I did not mean to throw asparagus at Scott's tuned scales, it's just for ME, with MY limitations, the FX-120i works better.

 

[BoydAllen]

No kidding! I was making a comparison based on load cell/strain gauge scales. Yours is a magnetic force restoration scale, and that is a whole other kettle of fish. They are spectacularly better than the strain gauge scales, but they cost, and I am not sure that I would want to take one out of the house. If I was preloading for 1,000 yards, and had the budget, that would be the way that I would go. Absolutely

 

[1066]

I have a set of vintage Ohaus 10-10 scales made in the USA prior to their moving production to Japan.

If only this were true

Current production of all RCBS beam scales is, as far as I know, carried out in either Mexico or China. This also applies to the Dillon Eliminator scale. The quality isn't a patch on scales produced only 5 years ago.
If you're thinking of buying a beam scale (and why wouldn't you) search around and find a good used one.

An older RCBS 10/10, 10-5, 505, 502, an older Redding No 2, or Lyman M5, Hornady "M" are all excellent scales.

 

[people]

Catshooter. Thank you for typing out that post. That is exactly what I was referring to.

 

[Nubster]

I have a set of vintage Ohaus 10-10 scales made in the USA prior to their moving production to Japan.

If only this were true

Current production of all RCBS beam scales is, as far as I know, carried out in either Mexico or China. This also applies to the Dillon Eliminator scale. The quality isn't a patch on scales produced only 5 years ago.
If you're thinking of buying a beam scale (and why wouldn't you) search around and find a good used one.

An older RCBS 10/10, 10-5, 505, 502, an older Redding No 2, or Lyman M5, Hornady "M" are all excellent scales.

How old? If buying from someplace like ebay and the seller isn't sure, what could they look for to tell you that it's a model worth buying? I read somewhere that the older 10-10 scales were marked with NJ on the bottom. Are the foreign made ones still marked like this?

 

[dixieppc]

I have a set of vintage Ohaus 10-10 scales made in the USA prior to their moving production to Japan.

If only this were true

Current production of all RCBS beam scales is, as far as I know, carried out in either Mexico or China. This also applies to the Dillon Eliminator scale. The quality isn't a patch on scales produced only 5 years ago.
If you're thinking of buying a beam scale (and why wouldn't you) search around and find a good used one.

An older RCBS 10/10, 10-5, 505, 502, an older Redding No 2, or Lyman M5, Hornady "M" are all excellent scales.

How old? If buying from someplace like ebay and the seller isn't sure, what could they look for to tell you that it's a model worth buying? I read somewhere that the older 10-10 scales were marked with NJ on the bottom. Are the foreign made ones still marked like this?

I purchased my Ohaus 10-10 scales in the mid 1970's. The date on the instruction sheet that came with the scales has 1974 printed on the bottom. Stamped on the bottom of the scales, it says they were manufactured in Florham Park, N.J. I have no idea what is stamped on the bottom of the non USA manufactured scales. Still have the original box, instructions and packing. The price on the box is $17.50. And no that was not cheap. In the mid-seventies $17.50 was a lot of money for a reloading scale. Anyway, when I was talking with Scott Parker on the telephone before shipping them off to him for a tune job, he wanted to make sure they were the USA model because he said he could not properly tune the non USA manifactured model. Not sure why, never asked.

Regards.....

 

[BoydAllen]

For any of you who have not seen one of the several video reviews of a scale that Scott has tuned, take your pick. https://www.google.com/search?q=youtube+scott+parker+scale&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8

 

[Danattherock]

Even I know who Scott is. Can't read old threads here for weeks on end and not learn something, even if by accident.

;D

 

[Brians356]

People seem to think that electronic things just have to be better, and while the best of them are great, they have some operating environment needs that may make them unsuitable for certain situations.

The most expensive electronic scales, AFAIK, require periodic recalibration and certification for accuracy. I could never really trust one.

 

[JRS]

People seem to think that electronic things just have to be better, and while the best of them are great, they have some operating environment needs that may make them unsuitable for certain situations.

The most expensive electronic scales, AFAIK, require periodic recalibration and certification for accuracy. I could never really trust one.

They most certainly do Some believe that by re-zeroing, they are calibrating the scale. I have an old original Dillon D-Terminator that I have calibrated whenever I think it needs it. I have access to the I&C department at our local nuke plant, and am able to have one of the techs perform this for me. They have the required equipment and expertise!

 

[dixieppc]

For any of you who have not seen one of the several video reviews of a scale that Scott has tuned, take your pick. https://www.google.com/search?q=youtube+scott+parker+scale&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8

I saw that video a while back and when I got my scales back from Scott I did the same test and it works. One granule of powder will actually move the beam. But what's more important is its ability to be repeatable.

Last year I took a brass nut that weighed close to 30 grains on my digital scale to a friend that runs a laboratory at a local university to have him weigh it and let me know exactly what it is. I wanted a precise check weight that fell somewhere close to the charges I throw for my 6PPCs and 6BR. The nut turned out to weight (to 4 places) 1.9679 grams which is 30.3693 grain.

After warming up for 24 hours, calibrating and zeroing my RCBS 450 digital scales, the nut will end up weighing anywhere from 30.1 to 30.6 grains depending on what day it is and what phase the moon happens to be in at that time. But what weight the digital says it is, at that time, is not as important as if it will be that same weight multiple times within a short time span of the weighing.... Repeatable!

10 weighings of the nut in 1 test minute gave me readings from 30.1 to 30.4. The actual rounded nut weight of 30.4 only came up 2 times.

Now to the tuned Ohaus 10-10 scales. I decided just to see how accurate they might be. After leveling the scales I set the beam to 30 and the rotating tenths to halfway between 3 & 4 for what you might assume would be a weight of around 30.35 grains. First let me explain that when my beams are set up, I have a piece of foam sitting under the pan cradle that keeps the beam from swinging to and past zero. That way when I do a dump or set something in the pan, I then slip the foam out and the beam never swings over zero and comes back down. I'm always "settling" up toward zero, never down to zero.

Okay, with the scales set to 30.35, I put the nut in the pan, let everything settle and slide the foam out from under the cradle. The beam creeps up towards zero and finally stops a hair over zero. Ok, pretty darned accurate but that's not what I'm after. I'm after repeatability.

Without adjusting the weights, I then adjust the level of the scales with the nut in the pan on the cradle so the beam pointer zeros. I then do 10 weighings of the nut going through the foam rubber bit and all that and all 10 weighings go right to zero. 100 percent repeatability.

That's 100 percent repeatability for less than $100 (my original cost of scales plus Scott's tune fee).

Regards,

 

[Brians356]

I have a piece of foam sitting under the pan cradle that keeps the beam from swinging to and past zero. That way when I do a dump or set something in the pan, I then slip the foam out and the beam never swings over zero and comes back down. I'm always "settling" up toward zero, never down to zero.

The foam is an great idea as long as it doesn't introduce static electricity. What type of foam is it?

 

[Raythemanroe]

I'll give you $105


Ray

 

[Brians356]

My RCBS/Ohaus 505 is sensitive enough to register a single kernel of small stick powder. It's the repeatability I have to keep chasing, and why I am interested in having it tuned.

 

[dixieppc]

I have a piece of foam sitting under the pan cradle that keeps the beam from swinging to and past zero. That way when I do a dump or set something in the pan, I then slip the foam out and the beam never swings over zero and comes back down. I'm always "settling" up toward zero, never down to zero.

The foam is an great idea as long as it doesn't introduce static electricity. What type of foam is it?

I don't know what kind of foam it is, Brian. I really wouldn't know one foam from another. It's what's left over after cutting the shape of a rifle out of the inside of a gun case. But now that you have brought this up, I might have to rethink this. You remind me of something I was going to bring up earlier but forgot. Now would be a perfect time to bring it up. Would grounding the frame of a metal beam scale subdue any static problems?

Regards,

 

[1066]

I have a set of vintage Ohaus 10-10 scales made in the USA prior to their moving production to Japan.

If only this were true

Current production of all RCBS beam scales is, as far as I know, carried out in either Mexico or China. This also applies to the Dillon Eliminator scale. The quality isn't a patch on scales produced only 5 years ago.
If you're thinking of buying a beam scale (and why wouldn't you) search around and find a good used one.

An older RCBS 10/10, 10-5, 505, 502, an older Redding No 2, or Lyman M5, Hornady "M" are all excellent scales.

How old? If buying from someplace like ebay and the seller isn't sure, what could they look for to tell you that it's a model worth buying? I read somewhere that the older 10-10 scales were marked with NJ on the bottom. Are the foreign made ones still marked like this?

At a guess I would think 3-4 year was the first time I started to see the Mexican ones and around 2 years ago I came across my first Chinese 10/10.
The Chinese ones often have a small paper label on the underside "Made in China" but cast in the base is still "Made by Ohaus. NJ"

All the later ones I've seen are painted with a green/silver flek hammer finish. All the solid green/brown/grey colour ones have been the earlier version.

The original cardboard box they are packed in all state where they were actually made. China/Mexico/USA