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IMR 4198 aka (ADI AR 2215) and H 4198 aka (ADI AR2207). I'm confused pls help.

as for other imr / h powders, i have only used 4064/varget,4350, 4831 along with 4198.

none of the H versions are as fast as the IMR and thus not interchangable, i have not had time to check cans to see if they are from multipul locations - when i can i will post as i have imr and h of all these

Bob
 
Still waiting on feedback from ADI (who seem a bit cagy about the whole deal) but I would suggest we have come to the conclusion that even though ADI might be making (or may have made) IMR 4198 - they must have made it to the IMR formula and it must have indeed past the testing regime as Jeffrey stated.

I will post ADI's comments as soon as I get them
 
2 months later I finally got an official response from ADI: " if IMR 4198 has a made in Australia sticker on it then it is most llikely a labelling error"

So it appears IMR 4198 is indeed still made over there, H4198 and ADI 2207 are made here in AUS.
 
Remington built the ADI powder plant in Australia years ago but the ADI plant and Remington now belong to a French company. General Dynamics weapons division manufactures IMR-powder in Canada and the Old Winchester powders in Florida.

Hodgdon doesn't make its own powders and only sells relabeled powders made in Australia, Canada and Florida.

Bottom line, there is NO AR2215 made by ADI in Australia and it is a misprint error.

Please look at the MSDS sheet link below and look at....
"All other single base powders", and you will see IMR-4198 is made in Canada.

http://www.hodgdon.com/msds.html

Simple way to understand, "H" powders are made in Australia, IMR powders are made in Canada. Remington arms and ADI powder are French owned and the IMR powders are owned by General Dynamics a U.S. owned company.

On top of this if Elmer Keith found out about this he would roll over in his grave, reload his 44 Mag and start shooting "frogs".
 
HISTORY OF ADI Re: IMR 4198 aka (ADI AR 2215) and H 4198 aka (ADI AR2207).

bigedp51 -
your history of the ADI/Thales and the Mulwala plant is a little different to mine.
A short summary of my understanding: Not long after WWII started, Australian Paper Manufacturing took part in a joint venture with the Australian government authoriies to investigate wood pulp for cellulose production. This originally started with the eucalypt trees but soon moved on to Radiata pine plantations in South Australia. In 1942 a study mission was sent to the US to investigate the opportunity for use this product in nitrocellulose production for use in cordite for the war effort. (This may or may not have been where Remington got involved?? - I believe Remington were contracted by Us Defence forces to source powder so may have been directly involved?? please fill in the gaps anyone that knows.). Production started at the Mulwala plant in 1943. Australian defence industries closed some of the plants below and moved powder production to this site at a later date.

Another plant: (extract from a government site) The Colonial Ammunition Company (CAC) built an ammunition factory on the river flats at Maidstone in 1889, aiming to reduce the colony’s dependence on imported munitions. In the early twentieth century CAC expanded their works to begin producing cartridge cases and bullets. The Commonwealth Government purchased the ammunition factory in 1928. During WWII the Ammunition factory was Australia’s largest and most important ammunition factory, employing over 9,000 workers, including many women. Australian Defence Industries took over the Ammunition Factory in 1989, closing it in 1994.

And another one (also extract from another gov site) Following a range of colonial initiatives, the nascent Commonwealth Government decided to establish the local manufacture of military cordite for small-arms ammunition and, in 1909, AE Leighton was appointed to design a cordite factory. The Victorian Government acquired the Maribyrnong land and passed it to the Commonwealth Government. Construction of buildings commenced in 1910 and the first production of guncotton occurred in November 1911. The first batch of nitroglycerine was produced in June 1912 and, a few days later, the first small arms cordite was manufactured. Also in 1912, a Remount Depot for the army was established on the eastern side of Remount Hill, taking over the Fisher Stables building and establishing a complex of associated facilities. Both establishments were formed in view of the worsening situation in Europe and, from 1914 to 1918, ammunition and horses were sent from Maribyrnong to the war front in Europe, the Middle East and North Africa.
During the First World War, the site continued to develop with expansion into the production of artillery cordite and initiating explosives. The chemicals used to produce cordite, including glycerine, cellulose and methanol, had been imported from Britain and, as a result of World War I, local companies were encouraged to produce these chemicals, creating a local chemical industry.
In the 1920s, funded by the Commonwealth Munitions Supply Board, the factory expanded its explosives and chemical manufacturing. The factory produced a range of chemicals for the military, and commercially for civilian use, such as oil of mirbane for shoe polish. In 1922, the Munitions Supply Laboratory was established, which later became the Materials Research Laboratory (MRL). By 1930-1933, the factory was the leader in Australian chemical manufacturing and the most technologically sophisticated chemical plant in Australia. In 1935, the factory began to produce solventless cordite for the Australian Navy.
Following the outbreak of World War II, the factory conducted intensive research into the manufacture of new types of explosive. The ammunition filling, cartridge bundling and fuze sections expanded and a new High Explosives Filling Section for naval mines and depth charges was constructed. Underground air-raid shelters and slit trenches were erected in central locations. Maximum explosives production at Maribyrnong occurred during 1942, following massive growth of the factory between 1939 and 1940. The workforce reached over 8,000, with approximately 45% being women. Maribyrnong was the centre of a network of subsidiary factories established around Australia during the war and provided training, equipment proofing and standards testing for the other factories.

At the cessation of hostilities, the Defence Site Maribyrnong changed to explosives recovery and destruction operations, a long process during which the women staff disappeared and were replaced by returned servicemen. The post-war immigration boom saw many new migrants employed and staff turn-over was much higher than seen pre-war. By 1960, new technology and other developments saw the role of the Defence Site Maribyrnong changed to largely producing propellants for rockets, assembly of rocket motors and production of other elements for missiles. The MRL's laboratory activities expanded and spare areas of land were utilised for other government activities, such as Naval Stores, Canteen Services for the Army and Air Force (AAFCANS) and the CSIRO.

By 1980, however, the site was no longer considered suitable for the production of modern explosives and the factory closed in 1994 - All production moved to Mulwala.

THALES group entered the play in 1999 when they purchased half the shares, with the other half going to the Transfield group. In 2006 ThALES took over the lot.
The "Mulwex" 2000 series of powders that we all know as either ADI 2000 series or Benchmark 1 and 2 (also sold by Hodgdon under their various names and numbers) were indeed developed well before THALES got involved and were an Australian government initiative - no doubt done in some heavy cooperation with our good friends and defence partners in the U.S.
 
camac

I can't give technical details as good as yours, and all I know is this, I collect British Enfield rifles and the information I have given here was passed on to me by Ozmanics. Contact DocAV the Australian at the Gunboards Enfield forum, he loads all the ammo for one of the movie studios. DocAV also worked on the movie Kokoda and help make the rubber Enfields.

Dirty muddy Rubber Enfield below on the Kokota Track

39.jpg


So here is what I do know, the Australian Lithgow Enfield factory was set up by the American company Pratt and Whitney. There was a long partnership/alliance with Remington/DuPont and Remington/DuPont help set up or provided assistance for making nitrocellulose powders in Oz.

And the American company Kraft foods owns and makes Vegemite in Oz. ;D

To get even with all this American activity the Australians beat the crap out of Quigley and cheated and took the Americas Cup from us.

Most of the Australians in these Enfield forums love me because of my sense of humor and because I own a Paul Hogan magnum Roo light.

roo-2.jpg


roo-1.jpg


Plus I always wanted to play basket ball with Elle Macpherson. ::)

winner-2A.jpg
 
Hey, Nothing wrong with a sense of humour. I grew up playing with one of those at the range (not the one holding the basketball but one lying on top). Ahhh - the frustrating memories trying to bed those nodes! (once again the ones on top).

I would make an educated guess that Remington and Dupont may well have imported the nitrocellulose from the Mulwalla plant for their powder production and it was hthose companies that Australian Paper Manufacturing and gov went to see.. In which case they no doubt were instrumental in it's orginal manufacturing specifications etc.
 
camac

As an American I can tell you the Australian ADI AR powders give better ballistic temperature uniformity than the Canadian IMR series of powders, so here in the U.S. the Hodgdons powders have many supporters.

I can also tell you Remington and Winchester no longer produce ANY ammunition at any of our military munition plants and this has been taken over by ATK.

ATKAlliant.jpg


M118long-a.jpg


RL15.jpg


The bottom line is IMR powders belong to the American company General Dynamics Weapons Division and ADI and the Australian AR and "H" marked Hodgdons powders belong to a French company. With Remington losing the contract to produce ammunition at all military munitions plants like Lake City whtch may have led to the takeover of Remington by the French company. Of note if you look at the hodgdons MSDS sheet you will see General Dynamics is producing both the old Remington IMR and Winchester ball series powders.

The world is a changing place and the U.S. military is contracting everything out to civilian contractors and the lowest bidders.
 
bigedp51 said:
The world is a changing place and the U.S. military is contracting everything out to civilian contractors and the lowest bidders.


You are right, the world is everchanging, coorporate takeovers seem to be happening at an astounding rate.

BUT this is not a new thing, Remington themselves were taken over by Marcus Hartley and Partners in 1888. in fact buy outs have been going on since capitilism began.

Similarly on the civilian contractors - Remington were a civilian contractor and got a lot of the military supply contracts for France (what goes around comes around I suppose), Russia, and Britain during World War I. Indeed Australian Paper Manufacturing was originally a private civilian company.

Cam
 

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