Importance: Caliber Vs. Wind Reading Skills

[Joe C]

I am a curious fellow, always wanting to learn more to improve upon what I already know. So I have been pondering this question for some time as I am about to build a new competition rifle in a caliber larger than my current .240NMC, which I enjoy shooting very much.

What do you all think is really more important at the end of the day? Now I know the ideal situation is a caliber that bucks the wind AND a man that knows how to read it...but just for conversation sake...

Is it a caliber that bucks the wind better at mid and long range?

Or is it perhaps a man that can read the wind properly, assess when to shoot, when not to shoot, and make the proper shot for the conditions?

And why do you think the way you do please.

 

[Lapua40X]

I think it's more complicated than either/or, Joe. My thoughts are is:
First, we must assume that the shooter is good enough to hit the target consistently. Poor shooting skills can't be overcome by handing a poorly trained shooter a better rifle.
If you can't reach the target, wind or no wind, nothing else matters.
So the ability of the chosen rifle to make the trip from muzzle to target is the next variable to consider. In my experience, generally speaking, heavier is better. My 6BR makes it to the target at 1K but the .308 Lapua in the hands of the shooter next to me carries much better in the wind.
All things being equal, two rifle shooters side by side in identical conditions, the guy who can interpret the wind best (as it relates to his rifle) is the winner.

 

[Hombre0321]

No rifle and no cartridge alone will ever beat the guy who can read the wind the best, no matter what cartridge and rifle he is shooting. That is a futile search and only separates the unknown from his money. There are some cartridges that will shoot a little closer to the wind than others, but that is not a even exchange.

RS

 

[Keith Glasscock]

I'll agree with previous posters that a shooter who reads the wind better than others will win.

I also subscribe to the inevitable error theory. It is inevitable that everyone one the line will make wind call errors the magnitude of those errors relates to the skill level of the shooter. For example, a HM might have an average error of .5 mph. If errors are inevitable, caliber will make a difference if the magnitude of the average error is such that the difference in drift is the difference between being in or out of a ring.

YMMV,
Keith

 

[Erik Cortina]

Ballistics only help you when you make mistakes.

However, if you make a mistake (not a huge mistake) you will lose 1 point with a 7mm and 1-3 points with your .240 NMC

So, if you are a very good shooter and make 10 mistakes on a match, it will cost you 15-30 points, where it would have only cost you about 10 with a 7mm. There will also be times where your .240 will shoot 9's and your neighbors 7mm will hit 10's, there's another point right there, and in F-Open, if you lose a point, the top shooters don't give it back.

 

[Dgd6mm]

Ballistics only help you when you make mistakes.

However, if you make a mistake (not a huge mistake) you will lose 1 point with a 7mm and 1-3 points with your .240 NMC

So, if you are a very good shooter and make 10 mistakes on a match, it will cost you 15-30 points, where it would have only cost you about 10 with a 7mm. There will also be times where your .240 will shoot 9's and your neighbors 7mm will hit 10's, there's another point right there, and in F-Open, if you lose a point, the top shooters don't give it back.

BINGO - E-I-E-I-O ;D

 

[MK 19]

Equipment will never replace the skill of the shooter

 

[Steve Blair]

Equipment will never replace the skill of the shooter

[br]
True, but when you are competing against top shooters with roughly equal equipment, reloading skills, shooting ability and wind reading skills, ballistics make a difference. No one can be perfect, all the time. When a shooter's wind call is not perfect, superior ballistics will reduce the magnitude of the error.

 

[mysticplayer]

All things being equal, what ballistics can offer you is "inside 10 vs outside 9" for the same SMALL mistake.

High BC HEAVY bullets going fast simply are more forgiving in the winds given that the mechanical accuracy of rifle and shooters in comparison are the same.

In the real world, that extra ballistics will cost in higher recoil, bore wear and running costs.

Unfortunately, there is no replacement for displacement.... and there is no shoulder fired combo that negates the need for shooter wind reading skills.

Jerry

 

[FroggyOne2]

High BC HEAVY bullets going fast simply are more forgiving in the winds given that the mechanical accuracy of rifle and shooters in comparison are the same.


Jerry

That is called "Buying points".

 

[Steve Blair]

That is called "Buying points".

[br]
Then, shoot Palma with 155's. That's called "spec racing."

 

[6BRinNZ]

I don't think they can be separated.

FO and FTR have a drive towards heavier projectiles for better ballistics.

Top FTR shooters can do very well against top FO shooters. Wind reading has clearly carried them a long way up the points, but it would be unheard of for an FTR to beat FO for an out right win at major comps...i.e. at that level its not wind reading that has made a difference.

But

For a new shooter the best thing they can do is use a reliable, easy to load, accurate cartridge and spend more time thinking about the wind than their gear. Gear can come and go but wind reading as a skill will work with any caliber

 

[Ryan Eastman]

Despite my innate gut instinct to not post anything, I just simply can't resist.

To the OP...as a competitor who wants every advantage I can get, I highly encourage you to shoot your 6mm at all ranges.

 

[spclark]

That is called "Buying points".

[br]
Then, shoot Palma with 155's. That's called "spec racing."

+ 1 on that comment (or maybe shoot a .223 for Palma!)

Good way to learn what wind reading's all about.

 

[Steve Blair]

Bob Gill won the CA LR Championship last year shooting a Palma rifle with irons on both days. It can be done.

 

[C. Collins]

I have a 6mm rem, and a 6.5x284 that I bounce between. They are both accurate. The 6 rem. I have to really be on top of my game when making wind calls. The 6.5x284 is much more forgiving. The guys I shoot with call it the laser beam. Anyways, Position, Confidence, and wind reading are all in the same cup as far as i'm concerned. These are the shooters variables, once the bullet is sent the external variables take over. A 6mm or 223 is good to practice with. The best practice I have had for F shooting is 223 service rifle.

 

[XTR]

I've written before that it's my opinion that F-TR is masochism and F-Open is self gratification. The point of that is that shooting a 308Win or a 223Rem to 1000 yards at a 1MOA target is unforgiving. Shooting a high velocity high BC 7mm bullet will raise your score and may make you feel better; however, it won't make you win. Your score may be higher than the guys shooting F-TR, but you're not competing with them any more, and if you can't make the wind calls you'll drop more points than the other Open shooter who can.

In F-TR there are lots of us running bullets that are heavier than anything anyone ever envisioned for a 308Win, but at this yrs world championship Russell Simmons finished second by one point shooting 155s, a bullet that not one new shooter here is even considering loading. I finished about 80 places behind him running 215s, so no bullet was going to help me.

Higher velocity and BC will raise your scores; if an average shooter switches from F-TR to F-open he will surely see higher scores, but if he's shooting against better wind readers he's still not going to win. The TN state Open championship was won by a 260Rem again this yr. Not the first chambering that comes to mind shooting Open.

I was explaining what we do to my father (Marine from the M1 era). I think I explained it best by saying that everyone on the line who has been shooting for a couple of yrs could probably come pretty close to cleaning the target in a true no wind condition. The competition isn't really about shooting, we are all pretty good trigger pullers with pretty good loads. The competition is wind reading, because in the end that is what separates us whether we are shooing a 308Win, a 223Rem, a 7mmRSAUM, or what ever caliber you choose.

 

[Jay Christopherson]

Higher velocity and BC will raise your scores; if an average shooter switches from F-TR to F-open he will surely see higher scores, but if he's shooting against better wind readers he's still not going to win. The TN state Open championship was won by a 260Rem again this yr. Not the first chambering that comes to mind shooting Open.

I was explaining what we do to my father (Marine from the M1 era). I think I explained it best by saying that everyone on the line who has been shooting for a couple of yrs could probably come pretty close to cleaning the target in a true no wind condition. The competition isn't really about shooting, we are all pretty good trigger pullers with pretty good loads. The competition is wind reading, because in the end that is what separates us whether we are shooing a 308Win, a 223Rem, a 7mmRSAUM, or what ever caliber you choose.

+1. Well said.

 

[savagedasher]

Accuracy will normally beat BC any time under the same conditions. If you take a gun that shoots
.250 at 100yd in that is 2.50'' at 1000yd then take one that shoot 1'' that will be 10'' at 1000 yd . Good shooter will kick you Butt
Larry

 

[Joe C]

I am really enjoying reading all of your thoughts and ideas regarding this topic and encourage you to continue to share your thoughts.

Personally, I understand the desire for a "better" cartridge. But I have also long held the belief that someone that can read the wind properly is more apt to win consistently provided he is shooting a round and rifle that he is proficient with.

But as I'm building this new rifle I want to make sure my focus isn't off and that I'm still remembering to grow in my shooting abilities...