IMI .308 Match Brass
- Thread starter Mikemci
- Start date
Lake City match and long range 7.62 cases come off the same line as standard M-80 ammunition. The difference is the match and long range cases are weight sorted and kept within a 2 grain weight variation.
And the 6.5 Guys just did a test of Lapua 6.5 Creedmore brass and the cases were within one grain of each other.
Lake city info.....
http://benchrest.com/showthread.php?94302-Lake-City-Brass-as-to-Lake-City-Match-Brass/page2
Per....Accurate Shooter .com.......
"In addition to commercial brass, many .308 Win shooters reload boxer-primed military cases such as Lake City, IMI, and Hirtenberger. The Lake City Match brass is pretty good. Some lots have been excellent. The standard Lake City fodder is inferior to Winchester. IMI brass has a reputation for being strong, but we advise you only to purchase it new. Some used lots of IMI brass from Israel have been defective. If you are looking for ultimate accuracy, IMI will probably disappoint you, though it’s good for gas guns that are tough on cases.
The most important thing to remember about military brass is that the internal capacity will probably be less than commercial .308 Win brass, because military brass often has thicker webs or casewalls. Montana Marine reports his fire-formed milsurp cases hold 56 grains of H20 on average compared to 58 grains for fire-formed Winchester. Given the reduced capacity of military brass, you should reduce posted max loads by 1.5 grains when loading with Lake City or most other milsurp brass. However, the IMI MATCH brass is closer to commercial brass in internal case capacity (ICC). Kevin Beggs reports: “Fired, my IMI Match brass runs with an ICC of 55.0gr and bumping the shoulder back .001″ will net me an ICC average of 54.0gr. LAPUA runs an average of 54.4gr and Federal runs an average of 54.3gr ICC.”
Hope this helps you,
Ted
And the 6.5 Guys just did a test of Lapua 6.5 Creedmore brass and the cases were within one grain of each other.
Lake city info.....
http://benchrest.com/showthread.php?94302-Lake-City-Brass-as-to-Lake-City-Match-Brass/page2
Per....Accurate Shooter .com.......
"In addition to commercial brass, many .308 Win shooters reload boxer-primed military cases such as Lake City, IMI, and Hirtenberger. The Lake City Match brass is pretty good. Some lots have been excellent. The standard Lake City fodder is inferior to Winchester. IMI brass has a reputation for being strong, but we advise you only to purchase it new. Some used lots of IMI brass from Israel have been defective. If you are looking for ultimate accuracy, IMI will probably disappoint you, though it’s good for gas guns that are tough on cases.
The most important thing to remember about military brass is that the internal capacity will probably be less than commercial .308 Win brass, because military brass often has thicker webs or casewalls. Montana Marine reports his fire-formed milsurp cases hold 56 grains of H20 on average compared to 58 grains for fire-formed Winchester. Given the reduced capacity of military brass, you should reduce posted max loads by 1.5 grains when loading with Lake City or most other milsurp brass. However, the IMI MATCH brass is closer to commercial brass in internal case capacity (ICC). Kevin Beggs reports: “Fired, my IMI Match brass runs with an ICC of 55.0gr and bumping the shoulder back .001″ will net me an ICC average of 54.0gr. LAPUA runs an average of 54.4gr and Federal runs an average of 54.3gr ICC.”
Hope this helps you,
Ted
Run it. I think it's as good as lc.. I use it in an ar10
I'm Uncle Ed and Ted did the review at the link I posted.
Thank you Uncle Ed !!
I bought a case of 1,000 IMI Match brass in .308, but have only worked up a few test loads so can't attest to it's durability.
The count was short by 5 cases. OK, I can accept they likely pack by weight. The brass was in good condition with only a few deformed necks, to be expected when shipped loose in a box, although there was a generous amount of packing paper. I was particularly impressed by the clean, uniform and centered flash holes and a uniform and consistent anneal on all cases.
I am OCD enough to weigh and sort. Yes, it's going through an AR10 and M1A but for the test lots I want as close to identical as possible. Extreme spread of case weight was 0.295g with an average of 11.685g and I easily found a couple sets of 50+ within 0.005g of each other for testing.
I expect that due to weight, thickness and volume I saw a few with light ejector shine at around 41 grains of H4895 under 178 gr. ELD-X. By 42 grains the shine was uniform and no longer just light but I was also getting bent rims so I stopped there. The tightest group was at 40 gr. I don't attribute the bent rims to brass quality or hardness, rather to the sub $500 AR being overgassed. I'm certain an adjustable gas block will be under the tree. One brand of ammo had the whole section of rim under the extractor ripped right off.
It's not Lapua, but I think I did OK for around 29¢/case.
The count was short by 5 cases. OK, I can accept they likely pack by weight. The brass was in good condition with only a few deformed necks, to be expected when shipped loose in a box, although there was a generous amount of packing paper. I was particularly impressed by the clean, uniform and centered flash holes and a uniform and consistent anneal on all cases.
I am OCD enough to weigh and sort. Yes, it's going through an AR10 and M1A but for the test lots I want as close to identical as possible. Extreme spread of case weight was 0.295g with an average of 11.685g and I easily found a couple sets of 50+ within 0.005g of each other for testing.
I expect that due to weight, thickness and volume I saw a few with light ejector shine at around 41 grains of H4895 under 178 gr. ELD-X. By 42 grains the shine was uniform and no longer just light but I was also getting bent rims so I stopped there. The tightest group was at 40 gr. I don't attribute the bent rims to brass quality or hardness, rather to the sub $500 AR being overgassed. I'm certain an adjustable gas block will be under the tree. One brand of ammo had the whole section of rim under the extractor ripped right off.
It's not Lapua, but I think I did OK for around 29¢/case.
Then why are their bunting stamps different.
I toured Lake City arsenal last year. One myth the guide mentioned was your claim of weight sorting. I've seen 4 grain plus spread in 7.62 LC match cases as well as M80 ones.
Did you know that 3 or 4 mixed lots of 172 grain FMJBT match bullets went into each production lot of M118 ammo? No wonder the test groups were 12 to 15 inches ES meeting the 3,5 inch mean radius. Best national match lots tested about 10 inches ES in bolt action test barrels, at least 12 inches in the best rifles.
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.295 gram is a bit over 4 grains.
The most accurate M1A rifles would shoot Sierra 168 or 180 grain rebulleted M118 ammo into 4 inches at 600 yards. A .295 gram case weight spread is nothing.
Unless your rifle's bolt faces are squared up, reloaded cases shot in them won't shoot as accurate.
Looks like the guide wasn't spreading myths and at the link below is where I got the information.
Case Weight Variation Reduction and Subsequent Ballistic Dispersion Improvements in M118LR
May, 2010
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&ved=2ahUKEwin05vjrfveAhUurlkKHVXBBEcQFjAAegQIChAC&url=https://ndiastorage.blob.core.usgovcloudapi.net/ndia/2010/armament/WednesdayCumberlandDionneDillon.pdf&usg=AOvVaw2_I1J10fPxz6QQV8IoorzY
M118LR Case Requirements
•M118LR Case Is Essentially Identical To An M80 7.62 Case Except For:
•Primer Pocket Diameter
•Head-stamp Requirements
Case Weight Variation For Each Cartridge Sublot Shall Not Exceed 2 Grains After Taper.”
Before improvements 61.24% Of M80 Cases Fall Into a Two Grain Range
M118LR And M80 Cases Are Now Manufactured Using The Same Process
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That's where I'm ordering them from. Thanks.
Mike
Uncle Ed, I'm not gonna bad mouth you for posting a link to info about LCAAP's case making that contradicts your claim. Nowhere is it mentioned that both M80 and M118LR cases come off the same machine then weight sorted. Here's the M118LR difference:
You put that in your post proving both case types have their own production tooling.
You put that in your post proving both case types have their own production tooling.
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Bart B
The date of the link I posted was 2010, I have 7.62 M80 cases dated 05 and 09 that have 3 to 4 grains of weight variation. After 2010 the M80 cases now have 2 grains or less weight variation and only 1 grain more variation than Lapua cases. And the newer M80 cases also have far less neck thickness variations.
Bottom line, the tour guide at Lake City wasn't lying or spreading myths as "YOU" stated and my link proves this.
Below the smaller Remington and Winchester .223 cases have 4.9 and 6.5 case weight variations. This makes the newer Lake City brass the cheap bastards Lapua brass at a fraction of the cost.
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I wish they sold them in less amounts , a thousand would be more than a life time supply for me... I have looked but only see the thousand packs...
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