I’m done with Alliant

[Bob3700]

When we were out at sea the Navy would open up sea stores and we could get Camels or Lucky's for $1 a carton.

Mort

And the lung , throat, mouth cancer was totally free!
The tobacco industry got in good with the military and secured millions of customers for life.
Wonder which Senators got in on that cash cow?

 

[Bob3700]

.............. I'm afraid not as I'm a lowland Scot, albeit an expat in northern England. So, the only Bond I might sound a little like would be the original version, Sean Connery.

So no Sin- Jen Smythe?

 

[Tangent]

I've not seen any Unique for a very long time, at any price. They're going to lose a lot of customers at this rate.

 

[searcher]

As long as theirs conflicts around the world the powder situation won't get any better.
Why would they spend the money and resources to bottle up 1lb or 8lb containers
when you could sell pallet loads to governments, plus a lot of them have contracts
that have to be fulfilled first.
Alliant or the parent company doesn't give a rats ass about us.
Same with bullets, primers and brass.
That's why you see more Hornady bullets and Vihtavuori powder and others. Guessing they never
signed on to government contracts.
It's better than it was a year or two ago. If a couple of bottles of power came up it
would be gone in seconds.
Look at Berger bullets, you can get quite a few different ones now.

I would have expected that VV powder would be the least available powder these days, given Finland is arming up and spending huge on weaponizing, relative to most countries. I worked up a "budget" varmint load a few years back, using Varmint powder which was super cheap. Now, it is in the upper price range. Don't know if those days gone by were just days of promoting a new powder or what......

 

[Old Navy]

When we were out at sea the Navy would open up sea stores and we could get Camels or Lucky's for $1 a carton.

Mort

And a case of beer at the Subic Base exchange was $1.15.

 

[ronsatspokane]

Wow, what an uplifting thread. The bottom line is that the inflation associated with the global war on energy permeates all goods and services. Everything produced requires energy, everything transported requires energy, everything stored requires energy, even items that are not produced, transported or stored (services for example) where people work from home via zoom require energy. The routers and computers we use require energy to be produced and operated. The result is that the price of everything is going up. Powder is just one good in a massive basket of goods impacted. Eggs have gone up more than powder. Now add wage inflation to the mix. Then add inflation associated government spending via the accumulation of debt to the mix and the result is that the middle class the world over is headed for bankruptcy.

The people responsible for this call themselves "progressives". In reality they are "regressives". They are statists who advocate for government takeover of the means of production under the guise of fairness, equality and equity. This returns us to the days before Adam Smith and his "Wealth of Nations" where we were all serfs and only the landed gentry and aristocracy owned the means of production. What is happening is becoming obvious to even the least astute observers. When a socialist like Bernie Sanders owns three houses while his constituents own none or at most one and the members of the party of the people (the democrats) become wealthy individuals who fly on private jets and lecture the world on the evils of energy, the game is afoot. It is going to get worse. Enjoy the ride.

On the bright side, I had a neighbor years ago who was a preacher. Found out much later that the religion he preached had to do with aliens hiding behind one of the planets in our solar system who were coming to save the chosen. So I guess if he was correct, we got that going for us.

 

[Fire Dog]

And a case of beer at the Subic Base exchange was $1.15.

About what a 6'er of Olympia cost....

 

[Fire Dog]

Weighed 135 pounds. Making $2.12 hr @ Chas Navy Yard. $50 rent. $60 month pmt on a new 66 Nova SS
No joe then. Had LBJ drowning us in a real KILLING war

Sadly true... Even Sempter Fi was drafting as they were going through so many troops...

 

[Fire Dog]

It comes to mind the old saying....
Nothing makes the Good O'l Days so good, as a Bad Memory...

 

[ronsatspokane]

Just so, but that (massively increased global demand allied to severe constraints on increasing propellant supply in the West) is only one half of the story. Basic economic theory says that prices rise when demand exceeds supply - that's not 'price-gouging', rather a simple fact of life.

There is another aspect though - MAJOR price rises to producer input costs in Europe. Because you don't make powders in the US anymore (bar General Dynamics St. Marks, Florida which makes only ball types), you import everything else, much made in Europe. Most Americans are probably unaware (thanks to low domestic energy prices largely due to the 'fracking' bonanza), that the rest of the West has seen massive hikes in energy costs since Comrade Putin invaded Ukraine two years ago and Russian gas and oil supplies have been largely cut off. This has been hard (to put it mildly) on domestic electricity, gas and petrol/diesel consumers with many people struggling to heat their houses in winter etc, but has had (and continues to have) a devastating effect on Europe's energy-intensive industries, primarily steelmaking and chemicals manufacture. Recent reports have warned of massive potential closures with Europe's chemical industry sector now unprofitable across the board because its business model was built entirely on cheap Russian gas supplies. Unsurprisingly, any chemicals made in Europe are seeing very heavy price increases.

Now ......... just what sort of product are nitrocellulose propellants?

To be fair, in a Lasses Faire capitalist system supply and demand do determine the price of goods and services. We are far from that however. Government the world over has placed a heavy thumb on the scale which is driving the costs of mining, production, transportation and distribution up via a war on energy, increasing regulation and out of control spending via debt accumulation. These days government is one of the primary drivers of cost. Granted, their driving up of costs is resulting in the private accumulation of goods and services and that further drives prices up. Let's hope that we don't see an Argentina type of hyper inflation such that the money earned in a given day needs to be spent that day because tomorrow it will be worthless. Gold is a good hedge but just as happened in WWII, government can make private ownership of gold illegal. Lead and gun cotton seem to be a good hedge as well based on the content of this thread.

P.S. I should add that in many countries around the world the private ownership of lead and gun cotton could be made illegal. In the US that should not be possible given our 2nd amendment protections. Not that state governments and even the federal government in the US respect the Constitution these days you understand.

 

[Tangent]

Some interesting comments on energy costs. What I can never understand is if you are a politician, and you want votes, why wouldn't you want cheap energy? It makes everything better for the voters. Unless, of course, you're so busy profiting from higher prices that votes become a secondary concern...

 

[Bemoni]

Interesting piece here on Sweden's new ammunition contract. That's where the Bofors grades that make up the majority of the Alliant Reloader grades are probably going these days.

https://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2024/03/22/swedish-fmv-signs-contract-small-caliber-ammunition/

(Note the mention of contract options to extend purchase / supply until 2030!)

On Alliant's minority supplier, Swiss manufacturer Nitrochemie Wimmis, there may be better news. Some of our retailers have said on Facebook and elsewhere in the last few days that the entire Reload Swiss product range (the European brand name) will be back in stock next month after a near two-year absence.

(I'm waiting with some interest to see what their prices are - I suspect there will be some hefty increases.)

The Reload Swiss has never been in short supply here in DK, i was told by the primary importer, that most of their trouble came from the authorities, governing the import and transport.
Primers is a whole different story, NO US made primers are available here, but fortunately RUAG and Fiocchi are, but the prices are rather high.

 

[ebb]

If some of the more aggressive leaders were to have terrible accidents, maybe hostilities would slow to a crawl, and all commodities would get cheaper and more stable.

 

[ronsatspokane]

Some interesting comments on energy costs. What I can never understand is if you are a politician, and you want votes, why wouldn't you want cheap energy? It makes everything better for the voters. Unless, of course, you're so busy profiting from higher prices that votes become a secondary concern...

Yes, some people are making money. The S&P 500 energy index has been up ~25 percent over the last three years. If you have a 401K, IRA, Keogh, pension, private investments in S&P indexes or are buying energy stocks directly, you likely have profited from that. There are other sectors which have been far more profitable over that same time period though (tech in particular) so I don't know that corrupt individuals in "public service" are necessarily benefiting from that particular sector. Could be though.

It seems that the primary driver of energy costs globally has been the war on energy driven by the global warming nutbags. The war on energy has resulted in decreased investment in new energy development, upgrades to existing energy production facilities as well as the outright shutdown of some production facilities (like the Montana Coal Strip, that coal is now going to China). Not to mention increased regulation surrounding all aspects of energy production and delivery which add significant cost. This administration in the US is now trying to take away your gas appliances. In Washington State, gas appliances are no longer installed in new home construction. Only higher cost electrical appliances are being permitted. This while the wackjobs on the left are trying to tear down the damns that produce that electricity all the while forcing people to move to EV's. Couple this government forced increase in demand with an ever growing population and the results are more than predictable. If the intent is not to bankrupt the middle class the public policy will do it anyway. The question is, is that public policy rooted in evil intent or good old fashioned stupidity.

The case in Europe seems to be similar in drivers of cost increases but there appear to be more complications. As Laurie indicated Germany is particularly impacted. The government of Germany was telling their population that they were going green. They shutdown their energy production facilities including nuclear facilities in the name of green energy but what they were really doing was shifting their supply from home production to dependency on Russia. That sure went sideways. Again, evil intent or good old fashioned stupidity?

 

[Tangent]

Seems our issues are very similar, I suspect our policies are greatly influenced by the much bigger and richer US economy. I'm not one for conspiracies, far more likely to be old fashioned greed and short term thinking. Both qualities that don't lend themselves to making large conspiracies work. One thing is for sure, once politicians start to interfere it's going to end badly. Firearms owners worldwide can attest to that!

I always say these things have a way of resolving themselves once the money runs out. I think we're pretty close to that now. Sadly it's going to be painful for anyone who has either, not insulated themselves financially, or has bought into some of these political ideas e.g. green tech.

 

[Infrequent Shooter]

I'm making lots of 223, 22 Creed, and 22br barrels. Next will be the 22 GT.

People are definitely choosing cartridges based on availability of components. Especially if they're trying to get started. People who were previously using the big boomers are now looking at much smaller cartridges to see if they will get what they need to get done.

When people call me and are talking about a new build I tell them I would look at components first. Do you have the components? If you don't have the components what components are available? Yes, the veteran shooters certainly don't do this because they're probably very well supplied. But then again a lot of the veteran shooters are completely unaware of actually what's going on out in the world. Since they are so well supplied, they have no actual knowledge of the extreme shortages that are actually happening.

No joke, people really need to understand that it's a distinct possibility that reloading components will not exist in another 5 years. These companies have been taken over and turned into a giant monopoly, and they can turn that switch off anytime they want to do it. And they have plenty of other customers to sell their product to. People really need to understand that

great macro post.

 

[Rsadams]

Pretty simple , elections have consequences in all aspects of life from powder to food.. It's no conspiracy or accident... Not very much in life really is... Don't let them take away the things you like in life that's exactly what they want.... Gas is expensive because they want you driving electric cars... Bullets are expensive because they don't want you to have them... What's really shocking to me is the fact that 36% of Americans think this is the way America should be... That alone tells you all you need to know about 36% of Americans...

Simply wait these people out at least we aren't just now starting this S show... Shoot a little less , change calibers , I now shoot precision rimfire.... Wana really learn what wind does give .22lr a try at 300 , even at a hundred it has crazy effects... You don't need to spend $5000 on a rifle but good ammo helps... The president of the United States said Americans have no problems paying these prices on national TV.... Yes everything but your pay has tripled...How many times have we been through this BS..??? Every single time the price ends up coming down , maybe not to what it was but it comes down.... The other thing is blatantly simple... As long as people keep buying stuff at these prices the prices will stay high , maybe even go up... When products sit on shelves prices go down not up...

We have simply switched powders especially from alliant months ago for our shotgun loads... There's plenty of cheaper powders that work just fine with some experimenting and load work ups... In 6.5 everybody told me to use h4350 and when I saw the price and the unavailability I went right to imr-4350 and it has been one of the most accurate rounds I have ever shot... Seriously who cares if it's a little slower if it likes that speed and puts bullet holes through bullet holes... What's even crazier is it will do it with a Hornady SST bullet instead of a more expensive one... If it wasn't for the prices I would have never have tried them.... I now have two boxes of SMK I paid $100 for sitting on a shelf...Just remember November is coming fast and yes it will take an election going our way and some time but don't let these fools beat you and definitely don't let them take advantage of you either , we aren't the only ones getting bit by this crap , everybody in America is.... Every single person on this board knows how to work up a new load with a new powder and/or bullet...

 

[USMCDOC]

i believe that before the price went up drastically, i managed to get about 7 years worth of the Alliant powder that i needed..

 

[ljmontano]

I got one of the original 8 pounders of Reloder 16 when it hit the
market. $169 !!! H-4350 went away during that time period for
awhile, and R-16 jumped up to $189, and I bought another jug.
Of those 2 jugs. I have 4 pounds left and will buy no more since
it's way over $400 bucks now.

 

[Hudge76]

Have you added Hodgdon to the list yet? I was in a local store that sells a little bit of everything yesterday to pick up .22 lr ammo. Two weeks ago, IMR4350 was $52.99, yesterday it was $79.99. That’s more than any Alliant powders I’ve seen lately. I guess I’ll try VV powders and some more Shooter’s World.