DaveTooley
Gold $$ Contributor
You're correct. I was thinking about the core group, maybe 5 or 6 people. It was a special bunch.
If Remington had made 6mm BR cases, 6 PPC would never have existed
- Thread starter SteveOak
- Start date
AlNyhus
Silver $$ Contributor
If I was to adjust the case capacity of a 6PPC, I'd go the other way and push the shoulder back far enough to get into the N120/4198/1680 range. Twisted 12-13 with the .825 jackets, it might make for a broader tune window. Or not. That's the fun of experimenting and learning. -Al
17VLD
Gold $$ Contributor
Perhaps a different outcome would have occurred IF a woodchuck shooter named Lou was shown a 6BR case instead of a 220 Russian case in that Sussex county gunshop during his guest to find something better than his old Swift.
But that ain’t what happened, things sure have come a long way.It sure is neat to see how far the shooting world has come.Imagine if Lou and Ferris had a Labradar. and all the custom brass and bullets we now enjoy.Shooting is in my opinion the best hobby one can have because no matter what facet you chose you can always do better.Striving for one hole accuracy or that perfect score or cleanly killing your game will always be our pursuit.Heck I’m not sure where I was even going with this, I am still mad Remington didn’t offer a Varmint Special in 6BR back then.Glad we have great gunsmiths that can help with that
But that ain’t what happened, things sure have come a long way.It sure is neat to see how far the shooting world has come.Imagine if Lou and Ferris had a Labradar. and all the custom brass and bullets we now enjoy.Shooting is in my opinion the best hobby one can have because no matter what facet you chose you can always do better.Striving for one hole accuracy or that perfect score or cleanly killing your game will always be our pursuit.Heck I’m not sure where I was even going with this, I am still mad Remington didn’t offer a Varmint Special in 6BR back then.Glad we have great gunsmiths that can help with that
AlNyhus
Silver $$ Contributor
I agree, Matt. It's likely Big Green didn't want the potential issues that feeding from a magazine in the BDL would cause. It's would have been stupid-simple for them to put a single shot follower in instead of a mag feed follower and just keep the BDL bottom metal...like Sako did with some of theirs. Or maybe they thought a BR Varmint Special would dillute the sales of the 40X's? Either way...it seems like Remington just continued to bobble the ball for any sort of production BR's other than the 40X's.I am still mad Remington didn’t offer a Varmint Special in 6BR back then.Glad we have great gunsmiths that can help with that
Interestingly, I have a few boxes of the excellent 308 URBR brass that was used to make the BR cases back then....the cases are stamped '22BR'!
To confuse matters even further, the 'Remington spec' BR chambers were 1.520 long. When Norma introduced the 6BR 'Norma' case, the neck was .040 longer than the 'Rem. spec' case and the back end was a bit bigger. Both of which were good but it caused all sorts of issues until shooters and 'smiths worked through it. Now, the Lapua 6BR 'Norma' case has become the standard. And to add another twist, later Remington factory loaded 6BR ammo transitioned to the .040 longer neck of the 'Norma' spec. case......but the 6BR brass Remington sold to hand loaders was still the short neck original version.
The chamber in one of my 22BR's is on the original 1.520 'Remington' spec. By trimming the necks on Lapua cases back .040 and running the cases through a 45ACP die to touch up the back ends, the Lapua brass works great in it.
Meaningless trivia to new shooters but a bit of history as I know it. I'm sure Dave and others can add much more. New 6BR shooters have it pretty easy...open a box, scoop 'em out and get to shootin'.
Hope you're doing well, my friend. -Al
rockhound78
Silver $$ Contributor
AINyhus--that explains why I have some r-p 6mm br marked brass with the longer neck of the Norma case
Jud96
Site $$ Sponsor
This would be a fun experiment as well!
A 6 Beggs is a proven good shooter and would be similar. A little smaller than a ppc.
Because of the longer neck on the Norma chamber and the longer Lapua brass, some of us with reamers for the original Remington cartridge simply ran them in another .030" and blew the shoulder forward, for our long range rifles. Short range rifles were chambered for the Remington case and Lapua brass was trimmed to length. I still use the Remington chamber for my SR barrels, but chamber everything else for the Norma spec cartridge. I still get requests for the BR with the shoulder moved ahead .030 too.
At one time (about forty years ago), I had some Remington BR brass with no headstamp, but they have disappeared during one of our moves, I guess.
I think it was around 1980 that a fellow competitor and gunsmith, Nobby Uno, shot a 6BR Remington with two batches of brass. One batch was formed from the Rem 22BR brass (308 small primer) and the other batch was formed from 22-250 brass (large primer). At the end of the season, the agg difference was a couple thou; in favor of the 22-250 brass. He concluded, it didn't make much difference. He shot well too. WH
At one time (about forty years ago), I had some Remington BR brass with no headstamp, but they have disappeared during one of our moves, I guess.
I think it was around 1980 that a fellow competitor and gunsmith, Nobby Uno, shot a 6BR Remington with two batches of brass. One batch was formed from the Rem 22BR brass (308 small primer) and the other batch was formed from 22-250 brass (large primer). At the end of the season, the agg difference was a couple thou; in favor of the 22-250 brass. He concluded, it didn't make much difference. He shot well too. WH
Ackman
Gold $$ Contributor
My 22BR is the same. Would have been nice to start with 6BR brass, but there was none at that time. So it was Rem. 7BR necked to 6 and 22, then turned. Reamers were spec'd by the riflebuilder. My guy was an avid benchrest shooter as well as hunting / varmint builder. His chamber is also the 1.520, has a .243NK which has worked very well. At that time I didn't do neckturning......the builder had a lathe setup and turned 800rds of brass for me. Gun turned out to be scary accurate, nodes in the 00's with SBK's, I'd never shot anything like that before.
Interesting. I knew he used 30-30 brass (PMC if I recall In his article) but that’s cool about him using 225 as well. I’d think 225 brass would hold pressures well - that stuff is tougher than hobo shit. Dave did you ever do any experimentation comparing the American brass to standard LRP 30-30 brass?
When I decided to build myself a 219 Donaldson Wasp (around 1979 IIRC), I used 225 Winchester brass. I chambered a Shilen barrel which I fitted to a trued-up 788 Remington action. It was fun but I never won anything with it. In fairness, I didn't try real hard. I rebarrelled the 788 to 6PPC and did win some with it. I don't know what ever happened to the 219 barrel. Then, as now, the PPC was the "easy button". I followed with some interest the American cartridge efforts, but wasn't interested enough to try anything with it. I did mess with some alternatives to conventional chamberings (my 30/86 was a short chambered 30/06 which utilized 35 Rem brass), but stuck with the PPC or the BR for serious efforts. Now, I have my 6 Rem BR for short range BR, and a Norma BR barrel (unfired so far) for my silhouette rifle. WH
Mulligan
Silver $$ Contributor
The Dinkey Dog that Harry Rowold uses, is a very short (.100") PPC in 6mm. From a conversation with him and reading in match reports, he used a 58gr bullet with N-130.
He did well with it from what I can see.
CW
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I'd say it'll shoot if you can find good bullets in that range or if it does just as well with 68ish gr bullets...which it very well might. IIRC, Gene Beggs touted a bit faster powders for his 6 Beggs, than what we typically use in a ppc. I think he had good results in it with powders in the h4198 range, like Al mentioned in a previous post. Seems...going by memory, he started out with h4198 but wound up conceding a little slower powder(I don't remember which) may have even been a little better. Again, going by memory and I think those posts on brc may be gone forever. So, if I'm not remembering correctly or if someone else has had good results otherwise, please do correct me. I've slept since then and only once or twice was it in a Holiday Inn Express, so I may be misstating it but I think that's correct. I hope Gene is doing ok but we haven't been seeing him online in a long while, now. I've had a few 220 Beggs barrels but have never had a 6 Beggs. Others may offer better input.
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DaveTooley
Gold $$ Contributor
I never spoke with Seely about his cartridge. The 225 reference I pulled out from under a pile of stuff in my brain so I could be wrong. It would have been the easy button. We were using LRP cases while we waited for the SRP to showed up. This is a sample of one but as I recall I didn't see any difference in accuracy. We never had an issue with the brass standing up to pressure. I'm sure they did but I can't remember the primer pockets getting loose. One barrel I had was a full length 22 and I pushed it hard.
Shooter13
Gold $$ Contributor
A few more pics for perspective and intrigue. For absolute confusion 
, enlarge that pic of the the 6mm BR Remington box and read the small type! Then, break open the, as referred to in SD, "BLACK JUICE"! For perspective, there are four full-length/[factory] pre-drilled .308 cases in the holder with the drilled (small holes I drilled Rt ) and, "out-of-the-box", NO flash-hole U6MMBR cases . . . also, note the dates manufactured. RG
For absolute confusion , enlarge that pic of the the 6mm BR Remington box and read the small type! Then, break open the, as referred to in SD, "BLACK JUICE"! For perspective, there are four full-length/[factory] pre-drilled .308 cases in the holder with the drilled (small holes I drilled Rt ) and, "out-of-the-box", NO flash-hole U6MMBR cases . . . also, note the dates manufactured. RG
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Two more . . .
RG
RG
Mulligan
Silver $$ Contributor
My 22BR was made from Rem 7BR brass/7BR Nickel cases.
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