IBS 1000 YD competators PLEASE READ !!!!

[gn1000]

To all IBS Long Range Shooters: There is a lot more to this story than previously posted. VA 1K has been using the Harry Jones Range for 7-9 years. I don't know who approved this piggyback arrangement within the IBS but it happened. Since then, a small handful (18-22) 1K shooters have used this arrangement to their personal SOY benefit by shooting 12 or more matches annually at the Harry Jones/VA 1K range(many times 20 matches were shot by an individual). Many of them are officers of the VA 1K Range and the Harry Jones Range. If there is any doubt about my statement go the results pages on the IBS website and research who and how many! I did!
I am sympathetic about the loss of a Range. I watched two of them that I frequented in Missouri go away. I did a little research and over the last 15 years we have lost at least 7 more including the Iowa Range that hosted 2 of our 1K National Championships. So the loss of a Range is unfortunate, but certainly not unheard of. I don't want VA 1K to go away. I want them to find their own range and stop creating doubt about a fair 1K SOY system within the IBS. We all have challenges in our lives and deal with them, it's time for them to do the same. Mike G stated "Only a very few guys give a shit about SOY". If that's the case I challenge Mike and the rest of the VA1K officers to abandon their Club's SOY points awarding ability and end this whole thing. Watch the Crawfishing on this!!!!
I would like to see any evidence that having two clubs at a individual range promotes the IBS or Shooting in general. The Range is still there, open to IBS shooters. How does adding a club produce a new shooter? Any VA 1K member can shoot the Harry Jones range. What does VA 1K offer the shooter that Harry Jones range doesn't already. Hmm? Maybe it's additional SOY points.
I got involved in this issue at the request of fellow IBS member. He asked for assistance in writing an Agenda Item that would get VA1K out of his state. He said that their presence hurt attendance at the range of his choice, White Horse. I agreed to help him with his issues and possibly eliminate the inequities that the Piggy back situation between VA1K and Harry Jones create within the IBS.
With all of this being said, we as IBS members, have the opportunity to vote on this issue. But I caution you to understand what your vote will determine. If you vote "Yes" any 1K range that has the ability to host another "Club" may present Club officers that fabricate a story, present it to the IBS for approval. The IBS does not have the ability or resources to police any attempt to create a "Sham Club". Secondly, the majority of IBS clubs cannot host another Club do to schedule restraints imposed on them by the Range Owners thus perpetuating the SOY inequities we see today. A vote for "NO" prevents any Range from allowing a piggyback club the ability of awarding SOY points. The exception is the VA 1K range which this Agenda Item grandfathers. Please note: with a lopsided "NO" vote the LR committee will take note of the vote's outcome and have somewhat of an obligation to respond accordingly.

 

[gn1000]

If PRS was going to bring more shooters to LR Benchrest it would have already happened. The opposite is true in our area. Unless you mean when PRS shooters get over 60 yrs old they might switch to Benchrest!!!

 

[Dusty Stevens]

If PRS was going to bring more shooters to LR Benchrest it would have already happened. The opposite is true in our area. Unless you mean when PRS shooters get over 60 yrs old they might switch to Benchrest!!!

The prs guys like to put a lot of rounds down range... like most folks do.

 

[slap shot]

I don't post a lot, but here I go. I'm ex IBS & I believe your downfall is the Damn SOY competition. I attended matches in 2015-16 when my work schedule allowed me, 98% of the folks i met in the 1-k matches were gold, me like everyone, would have good matches and some, not so good. After the matches, we all would go to dinner & have a great time going over all the groups & scores we had with the hind sight of would of, could of, should of.Then came the Nationals to Cool Acres, Ga. 2016. Then some of the SOY chasers showed their ass's when their feeling got hurt being out shot on relays, calling Foul,Refs come to the scoring shed & bring your updated rule books. Drama, like a bunch of spoiled kids trying to win a million $ prize, Really ??some it didn't bother, but for about a dozen or so, We just couldn't believe it.So IBS, try this, Light gun, Heavy gun & Whinny ass SOY competitions. With this Most of us could have fun & keep the sport going & the others could brag about how superior they are on their good days & win that pot of GOLD at the next Nationals.. Just my 2 cents & a wooden nickel

 

[Puzzaz01]

I'd like to know why we need 8 shooters to be registered? 7 isn't good enough? We only have 4 at our club, which means we need to travel 6-10 hours and what happens when we get there and we're still short one person. It doesn't sound like you're trying to grow this sport at all. Something sounds real fishy.

Darrin

 

[JBauer]

To gn1000, For you to claim "No one complained about the Florida Club using the Georgia range" is an absolute statement that you cannot substantiate. Since 2012 I received many 20-30 phone calls, hundreds of complaints at various matches I attended. The Florida/Georgia relationship has ended. The 600 yard piggyback relationship at Dark Corner/Piedmont has ended. The Harry Jones/VA1K is the only one that remains. I don't know who you are but I suspect you are one of the 18-22 shooters that annually has taken advantage of the Harry Jones/VA1K relationship for SOY purposes. if you care to identify yourself I can check my research and let the readers of this forum know sure. The only reason I got on this forum is to clear up some of the "claims" that are false, misleading and self serving. I want to help the IBS members that have the ability to vote on this issue know what is going on. Not a bunch of self serving, one sided presentations that have been previously posted. I stand by my previous post and explanations

 

[dmoran]

Now on to more important items, just a few to start with [1] when did we vote to change the number of shooters to have a match from 2 to 8 and is it in writing when it was changed, [2] who and when did they start giving points for relay wins at the nationals, [3] I just looked at the rules for 1000 yard SOY points and I see that somehow the rule that the most points for a relay is .60 points has been removed. This is a good start, I would like to know who, why and when and how these changes are helping attendance at matches????

Actually the .6-points cap is still in place under the traditional SO format. But is not in place for the other 2 formats. In fact under the 1 other format, there have been matches shot where shooters got more then .6-pts in relays, giving that format an advantage in obtainable points.
None of which is uniform/fair.....

 

[gn1000]

To gn1000, For you to claim "No one complained about the Florida Club using the Georgia range" is an absolute statement that you cannot substantiate. Since 2012 I received many 20-30 phone calls, hundreds of complaints at various matches I attended. The Florida/Georgia relationship has ended. The 600 yard piggyback relationship at Dark Corner/Piedmont has ended. The Harry Jones/VA1K is the only one that remains. I don't know who you are but I suspect you are one of the 18-22 shooters that annually has taken advantage of the Harry Jones/VA1K relationship for SOY purposes. if you care to identify yourself I can check my research and let the readers of this forum know sure. The only reason I got on this forum is to clear up some of the "claims" that are false, misleading and self serving. I want to help the IBS members that have the ability to vote on this issue know what is going on. Not a bunch of self serving, one sided presentations that have been previously posted. I stand by my previous post and explanations

 

[gn1000]

Yes I am a shooter from Harry Jones but when you make a list include everyone, before NC started back up you will see a lot of name on that list including you and your wife so don't say its just a few of us. Check everyone from the start not just recent years. Thank you Gary Nicholson

 

[JBauer]

First I never said anything about "a few of us". Second, Yes, you are one of the shooters that takes advantage of the HJ/VA1k relationship for SOY purposes. So now the readers of this forum know where your point of view is coming from. Protect your SOY game. To take advantage of situation that was not voted on or approved by the IBS members.
I don't think you meant to, but you make my point for me. For IBS members, not in the area of WV and the HJ/VA1K relationship it raises the time and cost for someone to compete for SOY. In 2012 Sally was competing for SOY. She was competing with two shooters that used the HJ/VA1K relationship to earn points. Why wouldn't they? There were 20 matches at one range near their homes. The only way for Sally to compete was to spend more money, more time, more effort to win in a SOY race that was skewed by a two Club relationship that was never approved by IBS voters. Pure and simple, the proprietary relationship between HJ and VA1K is not sportsmanlike or fair to the rest of the IBS shooters. That's why I, and many more IBS members think this relationship needs to end. Like I said in my first post, VA1K needs to find their own range or give up their SOY points. They caused the issue, they can end it.

 

[Wooten]

Gosh
Are all the IBS events this controversial ?
If so y'all count me out.

NO

At the 2-3 ranges I shoot at, there are little to no controversies. We have a great time and mostly everyone gets along (as far as I know).

But at the end of the day, right is right, and wrong is wrong.

 

[Puzzaz01]

@group therapy

 

[gn1000]

First I never said anything about "a few of us". Second, Yes, you are one of the shooters that takes advantage of the HJ/VA1k relationship for SOY purposes. So now the readers of this forum know where your point of view is coming from. Protect your SOY game. To take advantage of situation that was not voted on or approved by the IBS members.
I don't think you meant to, but you make my point for me. For IBS members, not in the area of WV and the HJ/VA1K relationship it raises the time and cost for someone to compete for SOY. In 2012 Sally was competing for SOY. She was competing with two shooters that used the HJ/VA1K relationship to earn points. Why wouldn't they? There were 20 matches at one range near their homes. The only way for Sally to compete was to spend more money, more time, more effort to win in a SOY race that was skewed by a two Club relationship that was never approved by IBS voters. Pure and simple, the proprietary relationship between HJ and VA1K is not sportsmanlike or fair to the rest of the IBS shooters. That's why I, and many more IBS members think this relationship needs to end. Like I said in my first post, VA1K needs to find their own range or give up their SOY points. They caused the issue, they can end it.

 

[gn1000]

Well since you brought it up about voting why didn't we get to vote on things like changing where it took 2 shooters to have a match to 8 shooters, going from one way to hold a match to 3 ways which is very controversial with shooters. There are other changes but these will do for now. As to the gentleman about if it's like this all the time , no it's not we love or sport and enjoy every moment we can spend at it. I have never been to a match that everyone didn't get along and have fun. There are just a few people that like to put drama in everything. So go to a match and see for yourself.

 

[69mach]

I live out in the kansas sticks so I don't get to shoot many or any ibs matches in a year. Byers CO is the closest range to me and it's about 7 hours away. I think the more matches held the more interest there is in this awsome sport and the better off we all are. Nothing is ever "fair", the wind makes sure of that. I quit trap shooting because of this kinda bullshit. There comes a point when argumentative uppity asses make it not worth spending your entire weekend trying to enjoy your hobby. I can have a crap ton of fun just shooting 1000 yds in my pasture. Infighting is why we have lost 2 different trap clubs in my area. The more matches the better. Let every range hold as many matches as they can. Have 2 per weekend, i dont care.

 

[slap shot]

The dozen or so of the SOY points chasers are killing the sport of possibly 100's of us that want to shoot relays & try for the matches and get the plaque, 69mach hit it on the nail.SPJ said it plain & simple, Mr Baur, send out a simple questionnaire to ALL IBS members about the long range SOY points vs just shoot for the range matches, I believe the reality check would piss all the SOY people into a CONNIPTION FIT that the rest of us are getting use to seeing them in. Lets shoot & have fun again !!

 

[ttfreestyle]

Why not make it where 2 or 3 of the matches that count towards your points must be shot at a different RANGE. I know that’s being done in another discipline and it seems to level things out. Troy

 

[alf]

When Virginia lost their range mid-season, they asked IBS and members if there was any objection to using Harry Jones to finish out the season. Nobody had a problem......but like most squatters, they just stayed.

Several years ago I started a thread on BRC wondering who felt that it was AOK to let them continue shooting as two clubs and score points as such. The thread got pretty heated, and Wibur took it down. One take away from that thread was one person actually stated that there was "no home field advantage" when it came to shooting local ranges, and of course he saw no problem with it. Don't piss on my leg and tell me it's raining.

Another stated that "Us shooters in the mid-west didn't know what we where doing", and "If you don't like the way we do it, go start your own organization". Yup, that grows membership......

When 2 or 3 other ranges tried to get a second club at their facilities, they were flatly denied, and I was told point blank "It wouldn't be fair to the other shooters". Yet two clubs carried on at HJ, giving everyone else a hearty FY.

Therein lies the heart of the matter of this ballot, making it official that HJ can host two clubs via grandfathering, but denies anyone else the same. I have no problem with them doing so, but then limit SOTY points to the first ten matches, no matter who's banner it falls under. If people are claiming that nobody gives a shit about points, then they shouldn't have a problem following the rules everyone else has to follow.

 

[gn1000]

One more thing and I think everyone will agree with, when they started giving 1st, 2nd and 3rd places for match winners it was fair but the next year they changed the amount of shooters it took to get 2nd and 3rd place and that only helped one club North Carolina the rest can't get enough shooter's to do so. My question is how did they start 2nd and 3rd without a vote and turn around and change the numbers so that it only works for one club. I think that is as unfair as you say that having two clubs at one range. I think it's just as important to discuss this unfair rule as well.

 

[Loggins J]

Every one has their own opinion we all have one if we agree or not it will be what it will be as Rodney King said can't we all just get along