I think my Kriger barrel is done @ 1200 rounds "UPDATE part 2"

[diego-ted]

I am very disappointed in my 6.5x47 Krieger Med Heavy Palma SS 30” barrel. About 1200 rounds of 130gr VLDs pushed by 38.4gr of Varget and I am pretty sure she is done!! I was expecting at least 2500 rounds out of this girl.

When I first got her she was shooting 1/2MOA now I am lucky to get 1MOA. She started acting funny after I started shooting F class. We had a few matches where we shoot back to back 20 round strings; needless to say the barrel was cooking.
I thought I might be the problem, so I had a fellow shooter who is very good get behind the rifle, the results were the same, two or three shot bug holes with two unexplained flyers. This occurred out of 6 different 5 shot groups. We checked all the usual suspects, loose rings, mount, copper, carbon fouling ECT.

I am sending the barrel and action to Charlie at High Score so he can evaluate and see if something jumps out at him. The one thing I am weary of is, I had the barrel fitted for a brake. The smith took about half the metal off the diameter for the brake. On a different gun when Highscore installed a brake he just threaded the barrel? I am not sure if this matters, but it jumps out at me as odd since half the material is gone.

I have a couple of questions, first was my expectation of 2500-3000 rounds way off base? Was it the heat from the back to back strings that screwed up the barrel?
Was this the wrong caliber for me? Is there a better caliber for barrel life with acceptable ballistics out to 1K yards? If I stay with the 6.5x47 do I need to change barrel makers maybe a Bartlin if I need to get 3K round life?

Thx for the help

Diego

 

[Keith Glasscock]

Re: I think my Kriger barrel is done @ 1200 rounds

Don't overlook the scope. I had a barrel that I thought was done until I put a different scope on - flyers gone!

 

[Hal]

Re: I think my Kriger barrel is done @ 1200 rounds

You could have a carbon ring build up.

Sometimes when the end of the barrel isturned small and threaded and a muzzle is screwed to tight the end of the barrel can be squeezed.

Hal

 

[Erik Cortina]

Re: I think my Kriger barrel is done @ 1200 rounds

Have you kept up with throat wear on your seating depth?

After smith took metal off the end to threat for muzzle break, did you rework your load since you now will have different barrel harmonics?

Have you checked for carbon ring?

Did you switch powder or bullet lots?

Have you trimmed your brass to keep it below max lenght?

Have you annealed your brass?

 

[Dgd6mm]

Re: I think my Kriger barrel is done @ 1200 rounds

I would have to bet that barrel is not shot out.

 

[VaniB]

Re: I think my Kriger barrel is done @ 1200 rounds

I imagine that this is where investing in a Hawkeye borescope might help to answer some questions here, if not at least eliminate some possibilities. It's a very handy tool to have..... especially in situations like this.

 

[Erik Cortina]

Re: I think my Kriger barrel is done @ 1200 rounds

One more thing, a Bartlein barrel will not last you any more or any less than a Krieger.

 

[BoydAllen]

Re: I think my Kriger barrel is done @ 1200 rounds

Where are you seating your bullets in relation to the rifling, and have you adjusted your OAL to compensate for throat wear?

 

[Keith Glasscock]

Re: I think my Kriger barrel is done @ 1200 rounds

One more thing, a Bartlein barrel will not last you any more or any less than a Krieger.

I agree, 416 stainless is the same durability regardless of who machines it.

On another thought, I recently fought the carbon-ring battle. I've come to the conclusion that I need to take a maintenance approach to the problem. Even though the rifle got to the point of blowing primers, the load didn't go away until the primers started blowing.

 

[Nomad47]

Re: I think my Kriger barrel is done @ 1200 rounds

Dang, Erik. Those are some very good questions. I am looking forward to seeing how this thread plays out.

Edit: I'm voting for carbon ring.

 

[Frankr]

Re: I think my Kriger barrel is done @ 1200 rounds

I vote carbon ring and a good throat cleaning.scrubbing.. I have seen in a few rifles where there was some fire cracking in the throat that led to carbon build up in the throat that took some or alot of scrubbing to get it out and it was right back to shooting. the carbon build up happened even though the rifle was cleaned regularly at 20 rounds and was very hard to get out. JB and a good bronze brush.

 

[diego-ted]

Re: I think my Kriger barrel is done @ 1200 rounds

Thanks guys for the suggestions.

The brake was cut for the barrel from the onset, I have not used it due to F-class rules. As for the VLDs, I checked the chamber when it started shooting funny, problem is I did not know the Berger VLDs vary up to 10 thou from base to OGIVE and I did not save the original bullet I measured my lands with. Based on the two lots of bullets I have, the best guess is I have about 10 thou of erosion.

I tried adjusting my load, I even did a new OCW and found two good loads, just have unexplained flyers that are unacceptable for competition. We have checked everything especially the scope numerous times. I have keep up good maintance on the brass with trimmig and anneling, the brass does have about 12 fireings each with little signs of pressure, maybe shinny marks on the head but no loose primers or any other physical flaws.

Previous to this, I only cleaned with a jag and patches. Doan Treiver in New Mexico also suggested carbon fouling. I put the barrel through three days of rigorous, aggressive cleaning with a bronze brush. I soaked the barrel with both Hoppe’s 9, CLP and brake cleaner for hours on end with more aggressive brushing, the result was the same at 100 yards. I would get 3 rounds in the same hole and two flyers.

I have tried to locate competent gunsmiths in Southern California, and have come up empty, so off to Charlie it goes, he will scope in and tell me what he finds.

Before I send it off, I am willing to try anything, if anyone sees something, or has a suggeston,let me know.

Diego

 

[fdshuster]

Re: I think my Kriger barrel is done @ 1200 rounds

Diego: Just curious, where did you get the number 2500 rounds? In my opinion & experience it's very difficult if not impossible to make a prediction about accurate barrel life of any barrel. By your own admission the barrel was "cooking". Just one of several factors.

The 6.5x47 Lapua does have a "good" record of barrel life, right next to the 6mmDasher in this sites "Overbore" cartridges defined by formula. But a lot of rapid fire can change all that.

I'd also be questioning the removal of "about half the diameter" when the brake was installed. Making changes to the outside contour of a barrel, after it has been lapped has a record of being harmful to accuracy. Change the outside diameter & you also change the inside diameter, one of the reasons Hart does all the outside contouring before the barrel is final lapped. And if the inside diameter did change, at the muzzle that's definately a problem. Bore diameter could be larger at the muzzle now.

As others have said, you could also have a buildup of carbon in the throat and/or a ring of carbon at the case mouth of the chamber. A borescope inspection would answer that question, and at the same time the presence of firecracking could be determined.

As others have said, changing barrel makers will not "add or subtract" barrel life. I burned out 3, 22-250 barrels, a Rem. factory, a Hart and a Shilen, all at between 2300 & 2450 rounds fired.

 

[BoydAllen]

Re: I think my Kriger barrel is done @ 1200 rounds

Just to be clear, if you have not used a brush until now, it is extremely likely to have a buildup of hard carbon that only judicious application of abrasives will remove. A bronze brush and solvent will not touch the stuff. It is a different animal than ordinary powder fouling. Think rock....hard rock....harder than the metal that it is deposited on. Now, get with someone that has a bore scope, and stop guessing. Good luck

 

[4xforfun]

Re: I think my Kriger barrel is done @ 1200 rounds

I think there may be a hole in your "base to ojive" solution. That really doesn't matter......if the bullet is longer, your seater will simply push it into the case further. If it is shorter, there will be less bullet inside of the case.

If you have seating depth problem due to erosion, then you will simply need to adjust your seater die.

As far as the difference in bullet to bullet length within a box, and from box to box for that matter, if it bothers you you will need to start sorting your bullets. The general consensus is that bearing serface variation is what we (I) want to eliminate..or at least minimize. I sort by baring serface to .001.

As far as the carbon ring...If you have never used a bronze brush, J B bore paste or IASSO, then you most likely will have a carbon problem.

 

[BoydAllen]

Re: I think my Kriger barrel is done @ 1200 rounds

Ditto

 

[Hombre0321]

Re: I think my Kriger barrel is done @ 1200 rounds

You must get the carbon out "if" that is the problem. I also think that all of the barrel manufacturer's will tell you " More barrels are ruined by improper cleaning than any other reason". Those are very, very true words...

Roland

 

[diego-ted]

Re: I think my Kriger barrel is done @ 1200 rounds

Up until now, I cleaned based on the way Frank from Bartlein did, this is how he said to clean.


"After my first patch down the bore I'll take it off and guide the rod back thru. This gets the loose stuff out.

Then I get a patch on my rod and I go down and back. I don't let the tip of the rod come all the way out. No dry patches in between. All wet patches till they come out clean. I use a Parker Hale type jag and roll the patch around it like you roll a cigarette. This will help keep the tip of the rod more centered going down the bore and back. I use no brushes either. I use regular Hoppe's No. 9. If I'm in a hurry I use Sweet's 7.62 solvent and after I'm done with it I follow up with a patch soaked with Rem. bore cleaner and stroke the barrel ten times with that one patch. Dry patch the bore thoroughly and follow up with a light patches of Hoppe's No. 9.

If you have a system you use and your not wrecking nothing than I've got nothing to say. Just because the guy down the road does it differently doesn't mean he is doing it any better.

Another thing that is not really talked about is that the gases from the powder will have a gas cutting effect and will also wear the crown of the barrel as well over time.

Later, Frank
Bartlein Barrels"

 

[dogdude]

Re: I think my Krieger barrel is done @ 1200 rounds

diego-ted, IMHO you have CARBON, get the use of a borescope and AGRESSIVLY ATTACK it. i had carbon in a comp. gun, accuracy went straight down hill. i cleaned with all the normal solutions and methods,helped very little. read the direction's on almost all cleaning solution's(when the patch comes out clean your done) WRONG!! 1200 rds is usually not the # to rebarrel, mabey rechamber and recrown, but as posted earlier 6.5x47 is not know for real long life. if you want some agressive methods(none i would post) PM me. all best dogdude

 

[diego-ted]

Re: I think my Kriger barrel is done @ 1200 rounds

dog, thanks for the offer, I am done with speculation, the barrel and action are on the way to see Charlie at High Score gunsmithing in Alburqurque, it there is an issue, Charlie will find it. I will post back with results.

Thanks for all the help guys!!
Diego