I think I need to neck turn..can anyone verify?

[Willie]

Good deal. I'll shoot for a .290-.291 loaded diameter and see if things improve.

I would suggest you aim for turning to .014" +/-. This will give you approximately .004" overall clearance. I have found this to be pretty much ideal for the three 6.5s I turn for. One other suggestion, gather the best brass you can get. I don't shoot a .260, so I can't advise which that is. Practice on any other brass available.

You will, as you stated, need to full length size. This is because the K&M indexes on the mouth of the neck. Your base to datum measurements should be the same, plus case overall length. This is necessary because you will needed to turn slightly into the shoulder to help prevent donuts forming.

Initially, this will seem to be a difficult process, but it's not rocket science, or I wouldn't be turning brass for all my rifles. Google German Salazar & neck turning, a great article, if still available. Get the tubing mic from K&M and learn to get consistent measurements. Take your time, be patient if you err and it won't take you long to get the hang of it. A good tutor will help the learning curve.

 

[WVHick]

I would suggest you aim for turning to .014" +/-. This will give you approximately .004" overall clearance. I have found this to be pretty much ideal for the three 6.5s I turn for. One other suggestion, gather the best brass you can get. I don't shoot a .260, so I can't advise which that is. Practice on any other brass available.

You will, as you stated, need to full length size. This is because the K&M indexes on the mouth of the neck. Your base to datum measurements should be the same, plus case overall length. This is necessary because you will needed to turn slightly into the shoulder to help prevent donuts forming.

Initially, this will seem to be a difficult process, but it's not rocket science, or I wouldn't be turning brass for all my rifles. Google German Salazar & neck turning, a great article, if still available. Get the tubing mic from K&M and learn to get consistent measurements. Take your time, be patient if you err and it won't take you long to get the hang of it. A good tutor will help the learning curve.

Thanks! I found that article earlier today and it's a great explanation.

 

[ImBIllT]

Fitted necks(a chamber neck that allows the bullet to be seated in a fired case, but does not cause dangerous pressure...I forget the clearance usually used for fitted necks, but I think it's around .001" total clearance) have been known to produce insanel small groups when they're "on" but are also known to be very finicky and often fire very large groups as well. "Turn thin to win" was once a conman mantra when guys started going away from fitted necks, and even past the the slightly larger .0015" that was common to .002"-.003" total clearance. You sound like you're running even tighter than a fitted neck. It's quite lucky that you haven't had overpressure problems. The tight fit of your neck in your chamber on un-turned brass yields another problem altogether. It disallows the body of the case from helping center the bullet on the bore and forces the bullet out of alignment because of the thick and thin side of the brass. A larger chamber neck, even with uneven necks, would likely shoot better. .002"-.003" is a very common clearance range for 6mm's, so turn at least .003" under your chamber neck diameter and don't be afraid to go a little more. Many SAMMI chambers have .009"+ and shoot very well.

 

[50bmg1979]

Thanks! I found that article earlier today and it's a great explanation.

If you are indeed going to turn necks, look at the neck turning lathe from 21st century. They are a little more but in my opinion worth every penny. Also if you don't have alot of brass to turn, check out dj brass service. They will turn to whatever dimension you need. Just a couple different options for your consideration

 

[LHSmith]

I favor K&M because of the wide array of upgrade tooling they offer- special mandrel sizes, tool holder, expander window, and the best upgrade IMO- carbide turning mandrels with or without the donut cutter ( greatly reduces heat from friction which destroys neck wall thickness consistency). They have many on-line stocking distributors and the initial set-up costs are such that you can dedicate one turner to one specific cartridge and/ or neck diameter once set-up and never have to adjust again -barring replacing the cutter and they offer a carbide cutter as an upgrade.

 

[dkhunt14]

Should be a neck of .298 for Lapua brass. .295 is for Remington brass. PPU 7-08 necked down would work too otherwise it would be best to turn. I have a gun that is .000" clearance and shoots amazing! I never get upset when something goes wrong chambering a round though because I know exactly why it happened.

When you neck a case down the neck walls get .001 thicker. I would never shoot a gun with zero clearance no matter how good it shoots. Matt

 

[/VH]

Sorry, I forgot to insert a digit.

Apparently you are not a physician. I wish my doctor would forget that part.

 

[Richard Coody]

neck turning is easy as pie. just uniforming your neck thickness is worth it for accuracy.

combining neck turning and annealing will improve consistency of neck tension which will show up on your target.

i use PMA tools A model but there are lots of good neck turners out there. just make sure you turn all the necks in a batch of brass to the same thickness.

 

[Brians356]

So I need to run it through a normal FL die set to barely bump the shoulder and then run through an expander and then neck turn?

Yes. I would bump the shoulders measurably, just to make sure the FL die is conditioning the neck/shoulder junction, and shoulders, uniformly. You will be cutting into the shoulders very slightly, at the transition radius, so uniformity there helps.
-

 

[ImBIllT]

I already have an Annealeez. I can anneal. I also have an anvil micrometer to measure the case neck thickness.

I have confidence I can tackle the neck turning, I just needed reassurance that it was necessary before I ordered the kit. Plus, I can use the kit into the future, as well. It seems everywhere has differing information. There was a guy earlier in this thread who said he had a chamber with no (.000) neck clearance and it shot great and then another telling me they're surprised my gun didn't explode so I was looking for a consensus on what was needed.

I'll order the neck turner and get my loaded diameter to where I'm at .005-.006 clearance and that should get me back into a normal and safe clearance range.

While .005"-.006" won't hurt anything, I would aim for closer to .003"-.004". You'll work your necks less, and it will be easier to turn. Taking big cuts can be a pain. If you're going to take more an a couple thou off your brass it's really best to do it in multiple passes. You might as well go with one pass to get it to .003"-.004" clearance.

My best recommendation is to get a GOOD case holder for turning, and a few extra expander mandrels. The K&M case holder does not make me happy. I need to look into a new one. Also, turning necks works best when the necks are expanded to fit the turning mandrel tightly, but not so tight that friction causes problems. A certain diameter mandrel can work great with one batch of brass and terribly with another. Different hardnesses and thickness of brass will offer different amounts of spring back. I recently tried turning some brass and my expander mandrel left my necks too large so that there was a gap between the case neck and the turning mandrel. I polished it down a little with some 1000grit paper and it worked great, but with the next batch it was too tight, and I had to use an expanded mandrel that hadn't been polished down. I believe Sinclair offers mandrels in various different diameters.

There are a lot of good things about the K&M, especially the price. I would highly recommend the carbide turning mandrels and some other brand of case holder.

 

[4xforfun]

I cannot do this. In fact, it takes a decent amount of pressure to get a bullet in a fired case.

Don't sweat it....I don't own a single bbl that I can do this with either. For 1000 BR I run .329 in a .330 chamber (300 wby) and .333 in .334 chambers (300 wby and 300 WSM). I can't even do this with my no turn dashers. Do I recommend this to others.... NO...but I am careful and kinda experienced.

My dashers are .271 no turn because...well..... that's what the other guys were doing when I had them chambered up.

Tod

 

[WVHick]

Don't sweat it....I don't own a single bbl that I can do this with either. For 1000 BR I run .329 in a .330 chamber (300 wby) and .333 in .334 chambers (300 wby and 300 WSM). I can't even do this with my no turn dashers. Do I recommend this to others.... NO...but I am careful and kinda experienced.

My dashers are .271 no turn because...well..... that's what the other guys were doing when I had them chambered up.

Tod

I’m gonna lean toward the safer route and turn them but I get what you’re saying. If there’s one thing I’ve learned, it’s that no one seems to agree on anything.

 

[fyrewall]

I shoot a 6.5-06, among other 6.5's.

I use once fired .30-06 brass for the 6.5-06 and neck turning is not an option. I anneal each piece and turn them down to .288. This gives me a nice slip fit when I slide a bullet into a fired case mouth. Some numbers:

.296 diameter reamer neck
.295 diameter fired case neck allowing for .001 brass spring back
.264 diameter 6.5 bullet
.014 minimum brass neck thickness after turning
.015 maximum brass neck thickness after turning, this is an imperfect world
.288 attempted turned neck diameter
.290 - .291 neck diameter of loaded round

.296 chamber neck
(.264) bullet diameter
(.015) east side of neck wall thickness, max allowed
(.015) west side of neck wall thickness, max allowed
--------------
.002 space - sort of iffy

.296 chamber neck
(.264) bullet diameter
(.014) neck wall
(.014) neck wall
------------------
.004 space - nice

Unturned .30-06 necked down to 6.5

.296 chamber neck
(.264) bullet diameter
(.017) neck wall (max)
(.017) neck wall (max)
----------------
(.002) no space

neck tension to hold bullet is adequate

same for the 6.5-.308
I don't bother to turn necks for the 6.5X47 Lapua but use F/L Forster dies honed out to .288. As mentioned I live in an imperfect world.

 

[mr45man]

I would just clean up the necks about 75%.
To start with ,do batch and test.
Also, i not see mention of fired neck size? Compared to loaded round.
.005 is way to much for a target rifle.
Just my opinion.
John H.

 

[Shynloco]

I'm new to the whole precision shooting ordeal, and I have a 260 Rem done by LRI. I was recently having problems getting a reasonable ES and SD looking at my chrony results and decided to investigate. I have an AnD FX-120i scale so it's not my powder weighing.

I was looking at the reamer specs and it lists the neck diameter of my rifle is .2955 with a freebore of .095.

I'm using Lapua 260 Rem brass and my loaded round diameter is around .2945-.2950. This doesn't seem like enough room for expansion. Should I turn my necks down .002? Is it ok to do this after the brass has been once fired if I run it through an expander die before turning?

Thanks for the help!

Just saw your post so I'll toss this in. I have a 260 Rem chambered br as well. My PTG Match reamer specs are .2950/neck and .0980/Freebore. I turned all my Lapua brass (cleaned up) so my loaded necks measure .291 - .293. But like Boyd says, you should turn your brass, at least to clean them up. Hope that helps.

Alex

 

[fyrewall]

Please see my last post regarding neck diameter of loaded rounds that I fixed. "ordeal" would be my impression of formal BR shooting . I did relatively well doing this stuff with NRA Hi Power, being fearful of any pressure excesses caused by tight necks resulting in unacceptable velocity variations some slop is permitted.

The rodents and yotes are exempt from ratings (score keeping). I am of the belief that precise fitting, independent of bullet seating depth, of loaded rounds inside chambers is not that big a deal.

 

[WVHick]

Thanks guys. I turned all the necks down on Saturday and got a very consistent .014 thickness for a .2915 loaded round. That puts me at .004 clearance. I shot on Sunday and now I can gravity fit a bullet in a fired case. I was playing with a new LabRadar I got and didn’t get any useful ES or S.D. numbers to see if it helped in that regard but my groups did definitely get better.

The neck turning took longer than I imagined for 200 cases lol. Surely this isn’t required after every firing? Haha.

 

[Willie]

Thanks guys. I turned all the necks down on Saturday and got a very consistent .014 thickness for a .2915 loaded round. That puts me at .004 clearance. I shot on Sunday and now I can gravity fit a bullet in a fired case. I was playing with a new LabRadar I got and didn’t get any useful ES or S.D. numbers to see if it helped in that regard but my groups did definitely get better.

The neck turning took longer than I imagined for 200 cases lol. Surely this isn’t required after every firing? Haha.

Congratulations! Sounds like you figured it out, but it seems there are many other "little" fixes on our road to perfection. Better groups lead to "I'd like them a little tighter".

 

[ImBIllT]

Thanks guys. I turned all the necks down on Saturday and got a very consistent .014 thickness for a .2915 loaded round. That puts me at .004 clearance. I shot on Sunday and now I can gravity fit a bullet in a fired case. I was playing with a new LabRadar I got and didn’t get any useful ES or S.D. numbers to see if it helped in that regard but my groups did definitely get better.

The neck turning took longer than I imagined for 200 cases lol. Surely this isn’t required after every firing? Haha.

Not required every firing! Most of the time I retire a batch of brass before I turn a second time.