Hydraulically forming to Shehane.

[Elwood]

So far it has been successful, I can get the case walls of a Lapua 6.5x284 brass to within 1 to 1/2 thou of a 7 times fired formed Shehane case.

The process is fairly straight forward,

Neck up 6.5x284 to 7mm,
Seat a fired primer,but next time I think I will sacrifice some Rem primers as you do get a bit of debris using fired primers.
Fill the case up with water or Isopropanol (alcohol) wiping off any excess on the outside.Put the case in the shell holder and and insert the case into the die, sit the plunger on top and hit it several times with a hammer.
Make sure the die is adjusted to your head space, I did over do the first two cases giving me 1.811 to the datum line and typically my fired cases measure 1.804 before I have to bump the shoulders back. I have marked these cases to check later on for case head separation, but my borescope tells me they are fine. I had to adjust the die beyond contact with the shell holder in order to get to my desired measurement of 1.802

I measured the dimensions of the cases before and after
Necked up Lapua 6.5x284 measurement at the case wall shoulder junction is 0.473.5, after forming it was 0.484.5
Length before was 2.154 afterwards it was 2.148
Neck diameter before was 313, after forming it was 310.5 (if you neck turn as I do then you will have to expand the neck again)

Forgive the blurred photos, it's a old camera in even older hands!


Right to left, necked up 6.5x284, hydraulically formed Shehane, 7 times fired Shehane.


Measurement at the case wall shoulder junction of a 7 times fired Shehane case.


Measurement of the hydraulically formed Shehane case, it did actually measure 0.484 but it moved while taking the photo.

The next test will be to shoot 15 hydraulically formed cases against my existing match load using exactly the same load data.

 

[jonbearman]

Nice job and assuming it is a hornady hydraulic die? Keep us updated as I am interested in buying one in the future.

 

[Elwood]

Nice job and assuming it is a hornady hydraulic die? Keep us updated as I am interested in buying one in the future.

Hi Jon, yes it is the Hornady die. Ben Syring at Hornady was extremely helpfull in getting it up and running.

I will update the results but it will be a while as my rifle is being re stocked and another spare barrel chambered.

 

[jonbearman]

Call hornady and ask to get a message to Ben Syring and he will get back to you. Did you lose any cases during the process?

 

[Elwood]

Call hornady and ask to get a message to Ben Syring and he will get back to you. Did you lose any cases during the process?

Jon, no I haven't lost any cases and I have done fifty, I will see how these shoot before I do any more.

I have had four Shehane barrels and all have shot amazingly well with fire forming loads, but with 200 rounds of barrel life used out of a barrel life of approx 1800 then this is worth a go. If it works then with what I have saved in powder and projectiles then the die will have paid for itself. If it doesn't work I will just fire form the cases with COW in a shot out barrel that I have kept, in which case it has been a waste of time but educational

 

[Elwood]

Here are the first tests using a hydraulically formed 284 Shehane case,

The distance was 600 yards with poor visibility and light winds.

The cases were fired in a Shehane that has been used in major competitions and match loads were used. I loaded the hydraulic rounds to match exactly the formed cases with the exception of a different batch of H4831SC.

Shot A was a sighter and shots 1-8 in black were fully formed shehane cases. Shots 9,10,11,12 and 13 in red were the hydraulically formed cases. I should add at this point the shooter was the current GB F open captain and all the rounds were fired from his rifle. Shots 11,12 and 13 all started to climb, David thought it was due to the barrel heating up and fouling, we purposely left the elevation alone and then decided to take a 1/4 off for the last two shots which were again fully formed cases, as you can see they came back down onto the water line, David obviously knows the barrels habits.

I won't say it's a conclusive test, that will come in time, but it certainly shows promise.

 

[drumcorpschamp]

"Seat a fired primer,but next time I think I will sacrifice some Rem primers as you do get a bit of debris using fired primers."



LIVE PRIMERS!?!? Doesn't this give anyone else the willies?
Jerry

 

[25AI260]

seat your used primer upside down..

 

[Elwood]

LIVE PRIMERS!?!? Doesn't this give anyone else the willies?
Jerry

Jerry I hadn't actually thought about that. I will try and deactivate some primers with a drop of 3 in 1 oil or WD40 and let them soak for a week as I'm told that this will work.

 

[Rockfish Dave]

OP Thanks for posting. I have 3 wildcats that this would be perfect for! (375/338 Lapua Improved, 284 Shehane, and 6.5 SLR-DB)

I had lost interest in it but your post has rekindled my desire to hydroform my cases. I checked the Hornady website and they have updated it with both prices and information on ordering. Definitely seems worthwhile both in convenience and cost of components. Cost of components for the 375/338 Lapua alone make this a no brainer!

http://www.hornady.com/store/Custom-Dies-Category

http://www.hornady.com/assets/files/price-sheets/Custom-Dies-Price-Sheet.pdf

Looks easy enough:


[youtube]http://youtu.be/NcUTbYzmVRY[/youtube]

[youtube]http://youtu.be/WurfzX6ARLc[/youtube]

 

[Elwood]

Here's a test with my Shehane with proven accuracy against the hydraulic formed cases.

Shots A B 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 and 8 are fully formed previously fired cases. Shots H1 H2 H3 H4 and H5 are hydraulically formed.

Same batch of bullets, powder, cases and primers and all loaded to exactly the same data.

Distance is 800 yards.No changes were made to elevation after shot 2 where I took 1/4 MOA off.




As you can see the formed cases held just over 1/4 MOA and the hydraulic cases just over 1/2 MOA. I guess a better test would have been two lots of 10.

I wouldn't go into a major competition with the hydraulically formed cases but I would be happy to shoot smaller comps with them, and it would seem that the load data between the two is transferable.

 

[boltfluter]

A Shehane is on my short list. Very nice write up. Well done. Thanks for taking the time. 8)

Regards, Paul

www.boltfluting.com

 

[Screamineagle]

Guys,
Thanks for this thread! This is exactly what I need for my 257 Ackley. I hate fireforming!
Steve

 

[cdparker]

The other way to do this is to shoot mid-range matches with Lapua cases opened to 7mm and a fireforming load of 4831sc. Be sure to seat the bullet into the rifling so that you do not get a short shoulder from the firing pin. I know that you can shoot HM F class scores this way.
JMT, FWIW

 

[bsumoba]

The other way to do this is to shoot mid-range matches with Lapua cases opened to 7mm and a fireforming load of 4831sc. Be sure to seat the bullet into the rifling so that you do not get a short shoulder from the firing pin. I know that you can shoot HM F class scores this way.
JMT, FWIW

I do this, but I dont jam the round. I expand to 7mm, then FL resize. I loaded it 10K out and then shot it in midrange matches. I was able to shoot HM mid-range scores with this. 54gr H4831SC seems to blow it out just fine and it is super accurate.

 

[Elwood]

The other way to do this is to shoot mid-range matches with Lapua cases opened to 7mm and a fireforming load of 4831sc. Be sure to seat the bullet into the rifling so that you do not get a short shoulder from the firing pin. I know that you can shoot HM F class scores this way.
JMT, FWIW

Absolutely right and I have done this myself and have witnessed it in other rifles. In fact recently I told a shooter to keep on shooting fire forming loads in his Shehane as his rifle was just so damn accurate, holding 1/4 MOA at 600 yards, that was a tongue in cheek comment, but his rifle was that accurate while fire forming. Being the generous soul that I am I offered him a good price for his fired cases, he declined

My two main reasons for trying the hydraulic case forming is one that I like to tinker, and two the cost of components is pretty high in the UK. On todays exchange rate and current GB prices 100 Berger 180 Hybrids would cost you $74.8 and a 1lb tub of H4381SC providing you can get some would cost you $62.That's almost double what you will pay taking figures from Bullets.com. Now factor in the price of a Barlien barrel that has fired 200 shots before it ever reaches its full potential and hopefully you can see where I'm coming from?

Luckily for me I have a fire forming barrel that I can use for cream of wheat fire forming and I can virtually just go outside my back door and fire form, many in the UK aren't this lucky. I'm quite happy that a fire formed load with COW or some other powder and a bullet that I no longer use will give me a case that I can go straight into load development with and then transfer that data to a match load.

 

[cdparker]

O.K. Here is a chance to get 4 more Angels on the head of that pin. Let's say you choose to fire form with COW. You take a base case and put some relatively fast burning powder in the case and then some COW. Now you plug the case mouth with paraffin. You go out the back door and point the gun at God and pop the primer. The firing pin strikes the primer and the case moves forward in the chamber as far as the extractor will let it go and then the case expands in it's most forward position. Also if you have a "bump-and-run" gun where the extractor doesn't grip the case really well, the case slips even further forward. You have now made a case that is slightly short for your chamber. You now have cases that do not exactly reflect the chamber in your gun. Then you use your full length sizer on it. Now look what you have done! That's why I suggest that you seat your bullets well into the rifling to force the base of the case against your bolt face in it's locked position.
JMHOFWIW

 

[6mmcldasher]

O.K. Here is a chance to get 4 more Angels on the head of that pin. Let's say you choose to fire form with COW. You take a base case and put some relatively fast burning powder in the case and then some COW. Now you plug the case mouth with paraffin. You go out the back door and point the gun at God and pop the primer. The firing pin strikes the primer and the case moves forward in the chamber as far as the extractor will let it go and then the case expands in it's most forward position. Also if you have a "bump-and-run" gun where the extractor doesn't grip the case really well, the case slips even further forward. You have now made a case that is slightly short for your chamber. You now have cases that do not exactly reflect the chamber in your gun. Then you use your full length sizer on it. Now look what you have done! That's why I suggest that you seat your bullets well into the rifling to force the base of the case against your bolt face in it's locked position.

JMHOFWIW

with the shehane this is not a problem . the shoulder of the parent case is the same , your not moving the shoulder. after fire forming and full length sizing you actually have to bump the shoulder back because the sizing die pushes the shoulder forward as it sizes. the cow method works very well for shehane.

 

[Screamineagle]

Nice job and assuming it is a hornady hydraulic die? Keep us updated as I am interested in buying one in the future.

Hi Jon, yes it is the Hornady die. Ben Syring at Hornady was extremely helpfull in getting it up and running.

I will update the results but it will be a while as my rifle is being re stocked and another spare barrel chambered.

OP,
How do you go about ordering the die from Hornady? I assume that a phone call is warranted?
Steve

 

[Elwood]

Nice job and assuming it is a hornady hydraulic die? Keep us updated as I am interested in buying one in the future.

Hi Jon, yes it is the Hornady die. Ben Syring at Hornady was extremely helpfull in getting it up and running.

I will update the results but it will be a while as my rifle is being re stocked and another spare barrel chambered.

OP,
How do you go about ordering the die from Hornady? I assume that a phone call is warranted?
Steve

Yes call Hornady and ask for the custom dept and Ben Syring. Ben did also email me and was very quick to answer any questions I had.
You will need a reamer print or several fired cases.