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Hybrids and more Hybrids

As Berger Bullets expand there line with the popular Hybrid line ( now a 140gr 6.5mm in testing) what would you like to see next?

For me I would like to see ( in order )
1. 95gr 6mm for the 6PPC to Grendal based 6mm's. Just think a 95gr that has the BC or higher of the current 105VLD.

2. 125gr to 130gr 6.5mm bullet, Again this would be great with the Grendal to 260 and Creedmore case.

3. 155gr to 168gr 7mm for the 7mm08 size cases.

Russ T
 
I would like the 95gn 6mm for BRs and Grendels.
I think an 80gn .224 for the 223 F/TR rifles would also be good.
 
I've asked Bryan Litz if the heavy 224s are capable of 'hybridisation', but no answer so far - we'll just have to wait and see. The other thing to bear in mind with recent introductions is that the .30 cal 215 and 230gn models are significant as much for their weight as for the Hybrid shape. Here's an extract from an old article by Bryan L. called 'What's Wrong with .30 Caliber?'

Bullet Weight and Scaling

The May 2007 Issue of Precision Shooting [Ref1] featured part one of a series authored by yours truly that focused on the effects of scaling bullets. The mass, ballistic coefficient (BC), stability, velocity, recoil and other effects were described. For this discussion, I would like to focus on bullet mass, and how it’s affected by scaling between calibers.

It’s a generally accepted fact that the heaviest bullet in a given caliber is the best bullet to use for long range target shooting. There are several credible studies of this topic, [Ref2] [Ref3] and it is one of the fundamental truths of long range ballistic performance. Assuming constant form factors (drag profiles), heavy bullets will have higher BC’s than lighter bullets of the same caliber. Heavier bullets will also have lower muzzle velocities than lighter bullets, but when loaded to the same pressure, the higher BC of the heavier bullet is more valuable than the higher muzzle velocity in terms of retained velocity and wind deflection at long range. German Salazar put it aptly: “Muzzle velocity is a depreciating asset, not unlike a new car, but BC, like diamonds, is forever.” For this reason, the present discussion focuses on the heaviest bullets available in each caliber.



Figure 1 shows how bullet weight is affected when you scale the well known “heavyweight” 6.5mm 142 grain Sierra Match-King bullet up and down in diameter. You can see that a “heavyweight” .224" bullet is ~89 grains. Makes sense, as 90 grains is the heaviest .224" bullet available. The heavy 6mm bullet is 112 grains. Ok, we know that 115 grains is about the practical upper limit for that caliber, and there are several fine offerings from Berger and DTAC in this weight range. The 142 grain 6.5mm that was chosen as the basis of comparison is in good company. In that weight class, you have the Berger 140VLD, 140BT and 140 Short BT, the Sierra 142 MK, the Hornady 140 Amax, the Lapua 139 Scenar, and the 140 grain JLK. That’s 7 legitimate “heavyweight” bullets in 6.5mm. Move up to 7mm where the “heavyweight” is supposed to be 177 grains, and you have the Berger 180 VLD, the Sierra 175 MK, and the JLK 180 VLD. Now move up to .308 caliber. According to the established trend, a real “heavyweight” .30 caliber bullet should weigh 229 grains. How many .30 cal bullets are that heavy? You’ve got the Sierra 220 and 240 grain MatchKings. The next heaviest things are the Sierra 210, Berger 210, Hornady 208, etc. So there are only two bullets, the Sierra 220 and 240 grain MatchKings that are even in the neighborhood of what a “heavyweight” .30 caliber bullet should be. Let’s take a look at the 240 grain MatchKing. This “mamba-jamba” freight train of a bullet shares the same tangent ogive nose design as all of the .30 caliber MatchKings down to 155 grains. The ogive looks short and blunt on such a long bullet which affects the aerodynamics which will be the topic of the next section. The long bullet has other common problems as well, in particular, the excessive copper fouling caused by the long bearing surface. Prolonged success with the 240 grain MatchKing is intermittent at best, and experiences vary among those who’ve tried them in competition. At 11 grains over the trendline, maybe it’s just a little too long.

The 220 grain MatchKing is only 9 grains below the trendline, which isn’t so bad. As far as legitimate “heavyweight” .30 caliber bullets, this is probably the best option available, yet it doesn’t seem to be very popular.

I think part of the reason these heavy .30 cal bullets get overlooked is because many shooters think that a 185-190 grain bullet is “heavy” for .30 caliber. In fact, a 190 grain .30 caliber bullet is somewhat of a “middleweight”. To put it in technical perspective, a .30 caliber 190 grain bullet is proportional to a 168 grain 7mm bullet, 120 grain 6.5mm bullet, or a 95 grain 6mm bullet. The 155 grain bullet used in Palma competition is very much a “lightweight” for .30 caliber. 155 grain bullets are used for international Palma competition because the rules specifically require it, not because 155 grains is the best weight for a .30 cal bullet at long range. Recently, some 155 grain bullets made by Berger and Sierra are designed with different, more aerodynamic profiles that help to compensate for being so light. The reduced drag helps them make up some ground compared to their conventional heavier counterparts,


Figure 1 won't paste in unfortunately, but the text still tells the story.

We only have the 180gn 7mm Hybrid in the UK so far - 155-200gn thirties will be available within days, the first shipment at the docks waiting custom clearance, so we're behind our US shooting friends with these bullets. I'm certainly looking forward to trying Hybrids for the first time (as I don't have a 'seven'), and await the 215gn .30 getting here with even greater anticipation for long range F/TR use. If a 0.224" 90gn Hybrid turns up later that's another treat, although I seem to have fallen lucky in getting the same weight VLD to shoot well.

Laurie,
York, England
 
I know they are not calling it a heavyweight, but I'm having success in load development with the 200 Hybrid in my .308. I'd like to see someone else's load work on a heavier bullet for .308.
 
JB

Certainly it is great to see the success of the hybrid's that are already there....

What would you like to see next?

Laurie
How about you, Just the 90gr Hybrid in .224?

RussT
 
Laurie
How about you, Just the 90gr Hybrid in .224?

Russ,

that and getting hold of the 30s are certainly my priorities. I nearly always shoot 105-108gn in 6mm and 139-142gn in 6.5mm, so Berger has those covered already. Maybe a heavier 6mm in the 108-115gn slot, but with the long Hybrid format that would likely need a 1-7.5" twist barrel, maybe even 1-7" for a 115gn version, and both of my sixes will stay 1-8" for the foreseeable future.

I had thought of lighter (120-130gn) 6.5s, but most people want to use them in repeaters at magazine length, so even longer bullets may not make much sense there. 6.5mm versions of the .30 OTM Tactical design might be an avenue worth future exploration by Berger when the company has all its Hybrid options covered - just a thought!

Laurie
 
I know they are not calling it a heavyweight, but I'm having success in load development with the 200 Hybrid in my .308. I'd like to see someone else's load work on a heavier bullet for .308. [jbpmidas]

I've just got my 308 Barnard / Eliseo tubegun used in F/TR back from being rebarrelled with a 32" Match Rifle profile True-Flite 1-10". (The MR rules stipulate maximum barrel weight of 5.5lbs, so it's long and relatively skinny.) I specified the throating by extrapolating a COAL for the 185gn Berger BTLR which I knew the gunsmith had available against inert rounds using some sample Hybrids that I'd managed to have sneaked out of the US.

Chambering these inert rounds in the rifle, I seem to have fallen about right with the throat length suiting the 185 and 210 BTLRs, 210 VLD + 208gn Hornady, and the 200 + 215gn Hybrids. So, I'll have a happy time doing some load development in the early part of next year. I'm really hoping that I can get the 200gn Hybrid to perform well as I regarded the 185gn BTLR as the ideal compromise F/TR bullet previously giving better external ballistics than the 155s but as good grouping potential, while being easier to control on the bi-pod / rear bag than the 200-210gn weight numbers and more accurate overall. If the 200/215s work out, it'll confirm my current hypothesis that they will replace the 185 BTLR as my 'ideal'. The 230 needs a fair bit more freebore than the 200/215, so a barrel that was optimally throated for it would be a bit of a risk as it severely limits the number of bullet models that would suit it.
 
How about some light 303 bullets for the service rifle competitors who still use their enfields and enfields rebarreled .I would love to see a 123 grain .310 bullet be made in limited production.
 
a 123 grain .310 bullet be made in limited production

Jon,

Lapua makes a very good 0.310" 123gn FMJ for the 7.62X39mm. I haven't tried it in .303, but know it'll put 5 shots into an inch at 100 from my M1891/30 Nagant sniper, so should do well in a reasonably tight bore Enfield.
 
Laurie said:
Chambering these inert rounds in the rifle, I seem to have fallen about right with the throat length suiting the 185 and 210 BTLRs, 210 VLD + 208gn Hornady, and the 200 + 215gn Hybrids. So, I'll have a happy time doing some load development in the early part of next year. I'm really hoping that I can get the 200gn Hybrid to perform well as I regarded the 185gn BTLR as the ideal compromise F/TR bullet previously giving better external ballistics than the 155s but as good grouping potential, while being easier to control on the bi-pod / rear bag than the 200-210gn weight numbers and more accurate overall. If the 200/215s work out, it'll confirm my current hypothesis that they will replace the 185 BTLR as my 'ideal'. The 230 needs a fair bit more freebore than the 200/215, so a barrel that was optimally throated for it would be a bit of a risk as it severely limits the number of bullet models that would suit it.

Laurie, I'd love to see what you come up with next year. I'm pretty much set for my next year of competition with the 200 hybrids. I'm finally getting a reasonable length barrel (30") in a heavy palma contour (6.5#) and I hope to start testing it in March.
 

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