Hybrid CNC/Manual Lathe

[Jud96]

I’ve been planning to upgrade my lathe in the next year or two and have also been wanting to tinker with CNC chambering and to get a CNC of my own to mess around with and make some parts. I have recently thought of maybe getting a CNC/Manual hybrid lathe that has hand wheels like a manual and a traditional engine lathe platform, but has a CNC control that can be programmed conversationally or with G-code. I know the Haas TL-1/2 lathes are really popular, but I’ve heard they’re not as easy to use manually. I have extensive experience with Haas ST turret lathes, but doing anything on them manually is awkward and not ideal. I also have spent a lot of time running Alpha-Harrison 600 series lathes, that are exactly what I’m looking for, but I don’t think are made anymore. Recently I’ve learned about the ProtoTrak lathes and I’m interested in those too, specifically the TRL 1440EX, pictured below.

Does anyone have experience chambering and operating one of these “hybrid” lathes? I’d like to be able to use it like a manual to simply chuck up a piece of stock and face and turn it, or use it like a CNC when needed. I understand it won’t be nearly as productive as a CNC turret lathe, but it would be used for prototyping and speed up my chambering process. Thanks!

 

[Walt Krafft]

I would be very leary of buying a used cnc that has any age on it. One little electronic problem could create an expensive repair or turn it into an useless boat anchor. I also talked to a place that tried chambering with their cnc. A handfull of broken reamers and scrapped barrels changed their mind. I would also look at how you are going to indicate in the bore as most cnc lathes have very long headstocks.

 

[hdskip]

Proto Trak is fine machine several job shops here use them.

 

[butchlambert]

I’ve been planning to upgrade my lathe in the next year or two and have also been wanting to tinker with CNC chambering and to get a CNC of my own to mess around with and make some parts. I have recently thought of maybe getting a CNC/Manual hybrid lathe that has hand wheels like a manual and a traditional engine lathe platform, but has a CNC control that can be programmed conversationally or with G-code. I know the Haas TL-1/2 lathes are really popular, but I’ve heard they’re not as easy to use manually. I have extensive experience with Haas ST turret lathes, but doing anything on them manually is awkward and not ideal. I also have spent a lot of time running Alpha-Harrison 600 series lathes, that are exactly what I’m looking for, but I don’t think are made anymore. Recently I’ve learned about the ProtoTrak lathes and I’m interested in those too, specifically the TRL 1440EX, pictured below.

Does anyone have experience chambering and operating one of these “hybrid” lathes? I’d like to be able to use it like a manual to simply chuck up a piece of stock and face and turn it, or use it like a CNC when needed. I understand it won’t be nearly as productive as a CNC turret lathe, but it would be used for prototyping and speed up my chambering process. Thanks!View attachment 1612344

Touch base with Dave Tooley or Cigarcop.

 

[msalm]

I’ve used the prototrak mills, very handy and basically a conversational programming. Windows based. For prototype type machining I think they are ideal. Lathe would be similar I’m sure.

 

[urbanrifleman]

I would really like to see the time study on chambering with a CNC verses a manual. From being an engineer in industry for 25 years, I think one would have a hard time justifying the expense and maintenance risk.

 

[Tucker65]

Having ran both manual and cnc machines over the last 30 years I would say that the biggest most time consuming part of chambering a barrel is getting it set up in the machine and ready to cut.

I have a small cnc milling machine in my shop but I don't think I'd invest in a cnc lathe for chambering work unless I had a boat load barrels to chamber Ina regular basis.

It would be nice to close the door and just hit the cycle start button but sometimes it's just not that easy for a one off chamber job or part.

 

[Jud96]

I don’t chamber barrels all the time, but when I do it takes me 3-4 hours on a manual lathe. I’ve made programs to do barrel tenons and muzzle threads in a CNC and it takes 2-3 minutes from start to finish. Add in a drilling, boring, and reamer operation and it would probably be 10-15 minutes start to finish. It takes me 45 min to an hour to dial a barrel in to 0, again I don’t do it everyday and the Interapid is tricky for me. So the CNC could take my 3 hour job and turn it into a one hour job.

I am time limited and I would love to be able to chamber up 3 barrels on a Saturday and not be worn out from running a lathe all day. I do that enough at my day job lol. The manual lathe makes the most sense now, but I would like to be able to grow into the CNC for making other non production parts and I’d like to do more barrel work in the future but not make it a full time job.

Maybe I’ll just get a good manual lathe and buy a Haas ST10/20 turret lathe for my CNC activities later on down the road. I was thinking the hybrid lathe would be nice to do basic shop work on like a manual lathe but speed up my chamber jobs, then use a CNC turret lathe for production work.

 

[urbanrifleman]

I don’t chamber barrels all the time, but when I do it takes me 3-4 hours on a manual lathe. I’ve made programs to do barrel tenons and muzzle threads in a CNC and it takes 2-3 minutes from start to finish. Add in a drilling, boring, and reamer operation and it would probably be 10-15 minutes start to finish. It takes me 45 min to an hour to dial a barrel in to 0, again I don’t do it everyday and the Interapid is tricky for me. So the CNC could take my 3 hour job and turn it into a one hour job.

I am time limited and I would love to be able to chamber up 3 barrels on a Saturday and not be worn out from running a lathe all day. I do that enough at my day job lol. The manual lathe makes the most sense now, but I would like to be able to grow into the CNC for making other non production parts and I’d like to do more barrel work in the future but not make it a full time job.

Maybe I’ll just get a good manual lathe and buy a Haas ST10/20 turret lathe for my CNC activities later on down the road. I was thinking the hybrid lathe would be nice to do basic shop work on like a manual lathe but speed up my chamber jobs, then use a CNC turret lathe for production work.

Specifcally WHAT takes three hours on the manual?

 

[Jud96]

Specifcally WHAT takes three hours on the manual?

The entire process. Takes me an hour to dial the barrel in and 2 hours to do the tenon, pre-drill and bore the chamber, and ream the chamber. I don’t do it everyday, so I’m slow at it and measure often and dial in after every operation

 

[jackieschmidt]

If you are a professional gunsmith, doing multitudes of barrels for a variety of different platforms. a CNC Lathe would probably be a good choice.

If you are a shooting enthusiast who does barrels for himself and perhaps a few friends, a solid manual lathe with the proper tooling is hard to beat.

As was stated before, one of the more time consuming aspects of doing precision barrel work is the set up time. Add to that, no two barrels are the same in the relation of the ID and OD.

If I really want to, I can set a barrel up and do everything required to get it on the rifle in two hours. But I generally take my time and make an evening of it.

It’s more relaxing that way.

 

[59FLH]

I’ve been planning to upgrade my lathe in the next year or two and have also been wanting to tinker with CNC chambering and to get a CNC of my own to mess around with and make some parts. I have recently thought of maybe getting a CNC/Manual hybrid lathe that has hand wheels like a manual and a traditional engine lathe platform, but has a CNC control that can be programmed conversationally or with G-code. I know the Haas TL-1/2 lathes are really popular, but I’ve heard they’re not as easy to use manually. I have extensive experience with Haas ST turret lathes, but doing anything on them manually is awkward and not ideal. I also have spent a lot of time running Alpha-Harrison 600 series lathes, that are exactly what I’m looking for, but I don’t think are made anymore. Recently I’ve learned about the ProtoTrak lathes and I’m interested in those too, specifically the TRL 1440EX, pictured below.

Does anyone have experience chambering and operating one of these “hybrid” lathes? I’d like to be able to use it like a manual to simply chuck up a piece of stock and face and turn it, or use it like a CNC when needed. I understand it won’t be nearly as productive as a CNC turret lathe, but it would be used for prototyping and speed up my chambering process. Thanks!View attachment 1612344

The only thing that appears to be manual is the spindle speeds. Most CNC machines can be operated in "manual" mode like this one appears, select your axis and crank the hand wheel on the control. Not much feel with servo driven axis movements.

 

[DaveTooley]

The savings isn't really in the first barrel. Although it is much quicker even for a one off. It's in the following years whenever a barrel for that action manufacture comes through the door. I've had my Haas for 15 years now. Maintenance risk minimal.
I believe on most if not all the current machines out there the hand wheels control the servo motors, not the rack and pinion we see on manual machines and is on my Haas. That's not unsurmountable but will require a new approach.
Spindle run time for most barrel jobs is 6 minutes or less and no need to confirm dimensions. There's setup time, which for me doesn't take that long, tool changes which take seconds to do, setting up the drill toolholder including editing the drill depth in the program, a couple of minutes. Run finish reamer in by hand.
I had a manual machine with an Imperial lead screw doing metric threads. That and the anticipated work load made it an easy decision for me.

 

[338 Mollett]

I guess I'm a slow poke ! But i don't see how I can get any faster on a non flush manual machine . To dial in and do the muzzle , crown indicating the high end up, redial the breach, thread to a class 3 timing the high end up, cut the chamber to 2 thou on the head space of where I want it . Cut the bolt nose relief to 5 thou give or take a thou. all the way around. Polish etc. Takes me at least 5 or 6 hrs. This using custom ground indicating rods .

 

[shortgrass]

1 1/2-2hrs or less (thread, chamber, cut & crown, thread muzzle). Depends on how comfortable you are as manual machinist. I run a 20" swing engine lathe at least part of every day. I'm as 'comfortable" tooling and setting-up the cnc lathe or mills. But, I 'cut my teeth' on manually operated tools. Experience,,,,,, makes it go faster and smoother. A muzzle flush is a big plus, too.

 

[338 Mollett]

Will drive to see someone do all that I spec. in under 2 hrs. !! Start time is handed an action for measurements and a long cartridge . cone bolt included.

 

[jackieschmidt]

The savings isn't really in the first barrel. Although it is much quicker even for a one off. It's in the following years whenever a barrel for that action manufacture comes through the door. I've had my Haas for 15 years now. Maintenance risk minimal.
I believe on most if not all the current machines out there the hand wheels control the servo motors, not the rack and pinion we see on manual machines and is on my Haas. That's not unsurmountable but will require a new approach.
Spindle run time for most barrel jobs is 6 minutes or less and no need to confirm dimensions. There's setup time, which for me doesn't take that long, tool changes which take seconds to do, setting up the drill toolholder including editing the drill depth in the program, a couple of minutes. Run finish reamer in by hand.
I had a manual machine with an Imperial lead screw doing metric threads. That and the anticipated work load made it an easy decision for me.

Listen to this man….^^^^^^^^

 

[LVLAaron]

6 minutes or less

 

[LVLAaron]

Will drive to see someone do all that I spec. in under 2 hrs. !! Start time is handed an action for measurements and a long cartridge . cone bolt included.

I'm a short drive from owensboro

It usually takes me 3 hours start to finish, including threads for a tuner, polishing, and reassembly. That includes a break, probably 2 incoming phone calls, and letting my dog in and out of the shop 427 times.

 

[SKWERLZ]

The entire process. Takes me an hour to dial the barrel in and 2 hours to do the tenon, pre-drill and bore the chamber, and ream the chamber. I don’t do it everyday, so I’m slow at it and measure often and dial in after every operation

Samesies
I’m not a pimple on a good machinist’s ass so I take my time and try to avoid screwups

Sometimes the indicating just falls in perfect and happens super fast, often I go the wrong way and