Hunting bullet vs vld style hunting bullets

[Hammer101st]

Can a throat be cut to accomadate both or is it one or the other? If so what bullet could i throat for that would be ok for both?

And please include past experience's and opinions.


And what have you all found about bullet jump with hunting bullets do they seem to like jump or no jump.

I have allways used vld style bullets to hunt with and never really screwed with [AKA] deticated hunting bullets

 

[std7mag]

My experience...
Stevens 200 in 7mm-08, reamed to "AI". (7mm-08 Improved 40°)
Reamer from PT&G with 0.060" freebore.
Loaded 139gr SST & 140gr Ballistic Tip to COAL 2.895" for 0.020" off the lands.
140gr Berger VLD 2.898" for 0.005" off the lands.

All 3 around 2,832fps with PP2000MR with 22" barrel.

Have always hunted with Ballistic Tips. Thought I'd try the VLDs.
Was really impressed with their performance!

I use either or now. Don't prefer one over the other for hunting.

257 Roberts.
Shot a buck about 70 yards distance with 115gr Ballistic Tip. He made it 15-20 yards. Pass through.

Daughters buck about 70 yards with 115gr VLD.
"He just kinda puffed up, went straight legged, and fell over!"

 

[Ed kof]

I never got to try my 150 berger hunting bullet out last year. It’s running 3295 fps out of my 270 Weatheruby. I’m guessing it will do fine. Edk

 

[Dimner]

I never got to try my 150 berger hunting bullet out last year. It’s running 3295 fps out of my 270 Weatheruby. I’m guessing it will do fine. Edk

Holy krikeys, I hope you don't shoot anything under 150yards. Assuming it's a classic or vld Berger hunting bullet made for rapid expansion.

 

[mikecr]

Can you point me to a bullet that wouldn't work for hunting?
The important part (accuracy-wise) is FULL seating testing with each different bullet.

 

[Clancy]

If you mentioned the cartridge or caliber, I didn’t see it, so I can’t comment on a freebore.

I can tell you that Berger hybrids pull double duty at my house.

 

[Orr89rocz]

Not sure what is considered a hunting bullet. Like the bonded or non cup and core bullets? Partitions and Mushrooming expanding stuff? Some of these style today are pretty low drag style as well. Old school partitions and corelokts kind of stuff isnt.

My 300 wsm set up for 210 vld will shoot factory norma 150 gr ballistic tips well. Im sure i could put anything thru it and find a suitable load. Just never have.

Same with my 308. Shoots matchkings, vld, and tipped gamekings all well. Also shot ballistic tips ok but i didnt mess with much load development with it.

 

[Hammer101st]

Not sure what is considered a hunting bullet. Like the bonded or non cup and core bullets? Partitions and Mushrooming expanding stuff? Some of these style today are pretty low drag style as well. Old school partitions and corelokts kind of stuff isnt.

My 300 wsm set up for 210 vld will shoot factory norma 150 gr ballistic tips well. Im sure i could put anything thru it and find a suitable load. Just never have.

Same with my 308. Shoots matchkings, vld, and tipped gamekings all well. Also shot ballistic tips ok but i didnt mess with much load development with it.

Yes sorry i guess nowadays everybody needs exact cenerio's a common question cant be answered anymore.

Yes i am talking about the "CLASSIC" hunting bullet like sst's and the corlokts and the partitions and the speers and the swifts and all bullets of the like.

It doesnt matter on cartdridge is as to why i didnt list one.

If i were to rebarrel a rifle or build one and i wanted to control throat and freebore instead of just slappin some ol saami reamer in it how would you all do it?

If i put a big ol honkin throat in ther for a vld style bullet will that ruin my chances of shooting the "CLASSIC" style hunting bullet like sst's and the corlokts and the partitions and the speers and the swifts and all bullets of the like accuratly.

 

[Capt. Oblivious]

Obviously for best results you'd want to setup your chamber for a specific bullet but I have jumped 87gr VLDs in a 243 that was setup for 105gr Amax so far that 87gr VLD's bullet was completely unsupported at one point in the chamber before it engaged the rifling and it still shot these kind of groups at 300y in a light sporter hunting rifle. I have rifles "setup" for ELD's and they shoot VLDs perfectly fine. I just seat a bullet in a case how I want to to be seated touching the lands and send it off to my GS with the parts and he does the rest with his reamer and throater.

I have a hunting rifle that shoots 200 and 215gr Hybrids insanely accurate and also shoots 180gr A frame and 165gr Norma Oryx just as good and its 3 completely different bullet designs, set it up for the VLDs youl be fine with a "standard" hunting bullet

 

[Hammer101st]

Obviously for best results you'd want to setup your chamber for a specific bullet but I have jumped 87gr VLDs in a 243 that was setup for 105gr Amax so far that 87gr VLD's bullet was completely unsupported at one point in the chamber before it engaged the rifling and it still shot these kind of groups at 300y in a light sporter hunting rifle. I have rifles "setup" for ELD's and they shoot VLDs perfectly fine. I just seat a bullet in a case how I want to to be seated touching the lands and send it off to my GS with the parts and he does the rest with his reamer and throater.

I have a hunting rifle that shoots 200 and 215gr Hybrids insanely accurate and also shoots 180gr A frame and 165gr Norma Oryx just as good and its 3 completely different bullet designs, set it up for the VLDs youl be fine with a "standard" hunting bullet

See this is the kind of info im looking for. Thank you sir for your input. Thats what i usaully do is send him the set up i want. I would hate to give up a subset of bullets because of throating.

 

[David Milisock]

Can a throat be cut to accomadate both or is it one or the other? If so what bullet could i throat for that would be ok for both?

And please include past experience's and opinions.


And what have you all found about bullet jump with hunting bullets do they seem to like jump or no jump.

I have allways used vld style bullets to hunt with and never really screwed with [AKA] deticated hunting bullets

People make too much of this crap, the 223 Wylde is proud of that.

If you have a cartridge that you like for varmints and medium game then yes for optimum performance you may want 2 rifles with 2 throat cuts. The 6mm is an example, if you have a target rifle that you want to hunt with just pick the bullet based on the game and distance then work your load. At the effective range of the cartridge you'll do fine.

 

[Will Henry]

It is not the end of the world if a bullet has to jump a little, and the magazine length is often the determining factor in a hunting rifle. I have one 260 Remington, in a single shot, which was just fine with most bullets but which required that some bullets be seated very deeply. This bugged me, so I lengthened the throat to accommodate the long bullets. This reduced the velocity on my short bullet loads but accuracy remained the same. I increased the powder charge to get the velocity back, and all was good.
A lot of the older style bullets have more bearing surface for their length, so they fit a longer throat better. WH

 

[Hammer101st]

It is not the end of the world if a bullet has to jump a little, and the magazine length is often the determining factor in a hunting rifle. I have one 260 Remington, in a single shot, which was just fine with most bullets but which required that some bullets be seated very deeply. This bugged me, so I lengthened the throat to accommodate the long bullets. This reduced the velocity on my short bullet loads but accuracy remained the same. I increased the powder charge to get the velocity back, and all was good.
A lot of the older style bullets have more bearing surface for their length, so they fit a longer throat better. WH

Good post this is the stuff i like to learn. See i figured a stumpy hunting bullets with higher bearing surface would want a short little throat and no freebore

 

[swd]

If i were to rebarrel a rifle or build one and i wanted to control throat and freebore instead of just slappin some ol saami reamer in it how would you all do it?

Absolutely. We do all the time. You can order a zero free bore reamer and a throating reamer and have your gunsmith throat it wherever you want or you can send in a case with a bullet seated where you want and have a reamer ground to from there for that OAL. The first option is more versatile.

 

[Hammer101st]

Absolutely. We do all the time. You can order a zero free bore reamer and a throating reamer and have your gunsmith throat it wherever you want or you can send in a case with a bullet seated where you want and have a reamer ground to from there for that OAL. The first option is more versatile.

I know all about that my question was more about the lengths of throats and freebore and what effect they would have on the classic style hunting bullet if were to throat for vld style bullets

 

[swd]

I know all about that my question was more about the lengths of throats and freebore and what effect they would have on the classic style hunting bullet if were to throat for vld style bullets

Most custom reamers have pretty much settled on 1.5 degree lead. It works very well for just about everything. There are some custom designs out there but if a bullet won’t shoot at 1.5 there’s a problem. And I talking Benchrest level not hunting rifle. You can go over to Lilja’s webpage and there’s an article on throats.

 

[alf]

I know all about that my question was more about the lengths of throats and freebore and what effect they would have on the classic style hunting bullet if were to throat for vld style bullets

Appears you already have one throated for VLD's, so why not try some of the hunting bullets it that?

Twer me, I'd still throat for the VLD's and take what the hunting bullets give me.

Side note.....

My 6.5x47 was throated for 130 VLD's. Last year, just for the halibut, I bought some Nosler 129 LR Accubonds to try in it. It'll shoot those right along side the VLD's at the same accuracy & velocity, with identical 200 yard zero for either.

 

[Orr89rocz]

Yes sorry i guess nowadays everybody needs exact cenerio's a common question cant be answered anymore.

Yes i am talking about the "CLASSIC" hunting bullet like sst's and the corlokts and the partitions and the speers and the swifts and all bullets of the like.

well it kinda matters these days as there are sleeker hunting bullets like eld-x and tipped gamekings and long range accubonds, etc, that are more geared to higher bc. They may also like/benefit from the longer throat a vld would like.
For the non high bc partitions corelokts etc, how far do you intent to shoot with them. A decent rig that shoots vld lights out should find something acceptable for a conventional hunting bullet in ranges appropriate for them. 1-1.5 moa does enough for most ranges where those are used lol. Id go for setting up for long vld if you wanna maximize on them and just end up where you end up with the hunting styles, with expectations they should still be ok accurate

 

[wjm1000]

Can a throat be cut to accomadate both or is it one or the other? If so what bullet could i throat for that would be ok for both?

And please include past experience's and opinions.


And what have you all found about bullet jump with hunting bullets do they seem to like jump or no jump.

I have allways used vld style bullets to hunt with and never really screwed with [AKA] deticated hunting bullets

Can't speak to the throating but can pass along what I've found out about bullet jump. I used to shoot 1000 yard benchrest and had a barrel that would shoot two separate groups at 1000 yards with VLD bullets, not consecutive shots completely random maybe six and four shot clusters. I had the bullet set 0.015" off of the lands. One day before the match I decided to play with the seating depth, shooting five shot groups at 300 yards. I started with my usual seating depth and shot 1.375" group. then started jumping the bullet in 0.025" increments' until I was 0.125" off of the lands. As I expected the gropes kept getting bigger as the seating depth increased. After shooting the 0.100" bullet jump I decided to call it quits, but my spotter said just shoot the next five shots instead of pulling the bullets. So I just took a casual hold and shot the next group the first shot hit the bullseye the next shot looked like I missed the target and I turned to my spotter and said why shoot anymore I missed the whole target, he said shoot one more and take a good hold. The next shot looked like the first hole got bigger well after the fifth shot the group measured 0.625". I couldn't believe it, I went home and loaded five more and hurried back to the range and shot 0.565" group. the next day at the 1000 yard match I shot a ten shot perfect score of 100 and a 4.250" group. to this day that barrel will shoot single digit groups at 1000 yards. I have .408/.338 shooting 300 grain Elite Hunter bullets at 3175 FPS that I'm jumping 0.075" off the lands that will shoot single digit groups at 1200 yards. Berger bullets at one time had said don't be afraid of jumping the VLD bullets, I don't know if the still have that on their web cite or not, that was when Walt was still there.

 

[gunsandgunsmithing]

Can a throat be cut to accomadate both or is it one or the other? If so what bullet could i throat for that would be ok for both?

And please include past experience's and opinions.


And what have you all found about bullet jump with hunting bullets do they seem to like jump or no jump.

I have allways used vld style bullets to hunt with and never really screwed with [AKA] deticated hunting bullets

Throating it for both is bullet and neck length dependent. That question can't really be aswered without more info...or guessing.

I pretty much jam all of my bullets to some degree. On hunting rifles, I want it to be light enough that I can extract a loaded round without worrying about pulling the bullet and dumping powder everywhere. Tangent ogive bullets are less seating depth sensitive, IME. Many of the vld style are either a secant or hybrid ogive. The hybrids typically shoot and tune more like a tangent bullet.

Berger hunting bullets are very good but they do seem to expand pretty rapidly. I prefer a bullet that expends a lot of energy inside but always exits, for a very good blood trail iwhen, not if, needed. I had a custom 260 Rem that I built several years ago that was an absolute laser with 130gr berger HVLD bullets but that bullet, at 260 speeds, came apart too much inside of about 300 or so yards. It worked but I already stated my goal for a good hunting bullet...good expansion and as close as possible to 100% pass throughs. Lots of bullets kill just fine without either but that's what I want from a hunting bullet...and of course good to excellent hunting accuracy, too. I recently buily myself a nice 7mm-08 and shoot 168 bergers in it but there's a big difference between how it needs to be throated for say the 168 classic hunter vs the 168 HVLD. I forget the actual numbers but enough to make it hard to be near optimal for both, so picking one and setting up around it is what you have to do at times. A longer neck makes any cartridge more forgiving in this regard, fwiw.

There's a point of diminishing returns that has to be tested to know but I put accuracy first, as long as I'm dealing with known good hunting bullets. Ya gotta hit him good first, right?

But then, to get better answers, a better asked question might help to narrow things down better for you and you'll very likely get better answers. Lots of good people here and lots of experience, which I assume is what you're here for. So take advantage of the good people that are willing to help by not criticizing them for trying to do what you asked for, and lets go from there.

BTW, by your screen name it looks like you might've served time in the military, not far from me. So, thank you for your service, sir!