HP BULLETS

[bench]

I have a bunch of Berger 40gr FB HP bullets and the hollow point is now larger than it used to be so that is has better expansion for varmints.
Can I close up the hollow point some so as to retard the expansion so they would be a bit better for predators?? And what tools would I need.
I wish some one would start building a bullet line for predators.

Thanks

 

[jlow]

Common misconception. Handgun hollow point is for expansion. Rifle “hollow point” is not real hollow point, just a product of how the bullets are made – they do not affect expansion.

 

[bench]

That is not how Berger states the purpose of the hollow point on these bullets??

 

[dmoran]

Common misconception. Handgun hollow point is for expansion. Rifle “hollow point” is not real hollow point, just a product of how the bullets are made – they do not affect expansion.

Yes they do...... the reasons are obvious.

 

[dedogs]

bench, What cartridge and what predators?

 

[dieselmudder]

Common misconception. Handgun hollow point is for expansion. Rifle “hollow point” is not real hollow point, just a product of how the bullets are made – they do not affect expansion.

Yes they do...... the reasons are obvious.

I believe the key to rifle expansion is in the jacket design, a thin, or tapered jacketed will provide expansion, whereas a heavy jacketed hollow point will perform like a FMJ with minimal expansion. Some hollow point designs are not meant to expand. the hollow cavity is solely designed to keep the weight father back in the projectile, enhancing stabilization, with a better BC

 

[bench]

OK fellas you guys can discuss the merits of the hollow point all you want but to get back to my question.
I have a ton of .224 40gr HP Berger varmint bullets.
And want to know if I can close the hollow point a bit as to slow expansion so they wont expand as fast as they are made to do on Varmints.
And what tools would I use to close the HP back to the size it used to be.
I want to use these bullets for coyote hunting and dont want a splash effect on predators.
Berger says-we opened the hollow point and little larger to give a rapid expansion on varmints.
It is hard to find a lite weight bullet for PREDATOR hunting because most bullet makers make bullets for VARMINTS
Thanks for input
Bench

 

[dedogs]

WHAT CARTRIDGE WILL YOU BE USING? (CAPS ARE ON BECAUSE KEYBOARD IS NOT FUNCTIONING PROPERLY)

 

[Jet]

Whidden makes what you are looking for. Link below. Great product.

http://www.whiddengunworks.com/product/bullet-pointing-die-system/

Good Shooting

Rich

 

[bdale]

Hoover Tipping Die might be something to look at as well.

www.accuracyone.com/products/bullettipping/

 

[lpreddick]

You may not have too much of a problem if the animal is large, like a coyote. 40 gr is not much lead and the large HP will cause the bullet to come apart quite quickly, dumping it's energy and most likely having no exit thereby not destroying the pelt. A smaller varmint(pdog) will explode! as their body can't contain the bullet's energy. A pointed bullet can very easily pass through the animal allowing it to run away and die slowly. I varmint hunt, almost fulltime(ghogs) and once shot Berger's MEF(maximum expansion factor) bullets exclusively as they had hugh openings and rarely had exits. The BC were low as are most varmint bullets. A varmint bullet has a thin jacket tip, so "pointing" the hollow point might now slow expansion as they tip starts to deform immediately after impact. A match bullet will pass through unless it hits bone. I like the higher BC of match bullets as they fly flatter and maintain velocity, so l spend winter days hollow pointing match bullets and have "harvested" many ghogs with 68 gr bullets with no exits...they litterly just drop and since they die so quickly, there is not a drop of blood and finding the entrance wound is hard. Don't know if this helps. Good hunting.

 

[bench]

Thanks guys for the info.

 

[jlow]

I know the OP in not really interested in the definition of "hollow point" but it does in fact affect what he is trying to do.

So if you look at the Berger site, you will see this description of their varmint bullets:

"The Varmint bullet line is made up of Match Grade bullets that are most commonly used on varmints. Each bullet is made with thin nosed J4 Precision Jackets for rapid expansion. Being Match Grade gives them the same precision performance capability of competition target bullets increasing your hit percentage and extending your effective lethal range"

Notice they do not describe the “hollow point” as a feature that results in this. In fact for Part Number 22303, the correct description is “22 Cal 40 Grain Match Grade FB Varmint” . The descriptor “hollow point” is not present.

I think the explosive nature of these bullets is not due to their “hollow point” but rather their thin jacket and their MV of these bullets which is very high.

The confusion of “hollow point” rifle bullets which are not true hollow point was the focus of a huge stink in recent years and resulted in a temporary banning of our sniper from using rounds loaded with the SMK boat tail hollow point (BTHP) - imagine that!!!!!!!! :'( This is the reason for the new nomenclature of open tip match (OTM)….

http://www.sadefensejournal.com/wp/?p=1262

 

[CatShooter]

Prior to the advent of the poly-tipped bullets, the true hollow point was (and still is) one of the premier expanding bullets - some have standard thickness jackets, and some are thin - but it is the internal hydraulic pressure that forces the front of the jacket to peel out that causes fast expansion.

The match kings were finely approved for military use because the hollow point is (for all practical purposes) closed, and it was not designed to expand quickly - performance on live targets is poor.

From Speer... reqarding their 52gr Hollow point varmint bullet.

"Product Information

Speer Varmint Hollow Point bullets feature a hollow cavity at the point which upon impact is forced opened with rapid expansion. The Result is less penetration but tremendous damage due to the larger diameter of the bullet. These bullets are ideally suited for varmint hunting applications. This is not loaded ammunition. "

Anyone that has shot many woodchucks before the advent of poly-tipped bullets knows that it is the holow opening in the hollow-point bullets that make them work.

 

[jlow]

I am no ballistician and so no expert on bullet design but only passing on what I know. I post information specific to the bullet that the OP’s question was on from the manufacture. If you decide you know more and like what Speer says – more power to you but my guess is you don’t know any more than I do so debate is pretty worthless, but I know that never stop anybody...

 

[Laurie]

I asked Whiddens two, three years back if they do a 20 cal sleeve for their pointing die and the answer was 'no'. Apparently it's not feasible to point (reduce meplat size on) this diameter for some reason. So, unless things have changed or Hoover disagrees, the answer to the OP's question is 'afraid not'.

 

[dedogs]

LAURIE, NOT SURE OP IS ASKING ABOUT .20 CALIBER AS HE WON'T ANSWER ? AS TO WHAT CARTRIDGE HE IS LOADING FOR. I THINK HE COULD BE ASKING ABOUT .22 CAL. DOES WHIDDEN MAKE A .22 CAL. POINTING DIE?

 

[Laurie]

Yeah, you're right - not sure why I assumed .20 - maybe cause I used to shoot 40gn Berger 20s a lot.

Yes, you can get a 22 pointing die OK. Not cheap though. I'm not sure how well these dies would work on a true HP expanding bullet with a really big hole up front. They're designed to deal with HP Match types with pretty small diameter meplat.

 

[6BRinNZ]

Bench - I would just try them - I expect you will still get the penetration you are after. I shot the 6mm 88 varmint and it wouldn't expand all that quick despite solid bone hits on hares - they all ended up dead though. Relative to the 75 v-max which would splat them real quick as would the 105 grn A-max - yet I know some guys use the 105 A-max on deer.

Long story short the whole bullet construction comes into play and I suspect the bergers you have listed will still penetrate well but expand and do enough damage if your a little off on POA and into soft tissue.

 

[dedogs]

BENCH, MY APOLOGIES, YOU DID STATE THAT YOU ARE USING .224 BULLETS.

6BR, BENCH HAS SENT PM AND HE IS SHOOTING SEVERAL VERY HIGH VELOCITY CARTRIDGES THAT WILL IN FACT CAUSE "BULLET SPLASH" ON COYOTES AND WOLVES WITH RESULTING RUN-OFF'S. IN MY OPINION HE IS ON THE RIGHT TRACK- HE NEEDS TO TRY AND CLOSE THE CAVITY OPENING SOME IF POSSIBLE. LAURIE MAY BE CORRECT--THE WHIDDEN POINTER MAY NOT DO IT.