How to reduct muzzle blast w handloads

[hboothe]

Many of the things mentioned here will be helpful and predictable. Faster powders normally produce less muzzle pressure, burn more completely and have less flash. Those are all considerations. Some powders are just plain loud. Anyone who shoots Hodgdon loudshot in a pistol will attest to that.

Generally speaking, reducing a load using a loud powder will only make it worse. You lower the burn rate, have more unburned powder, and more muzzle pressure. If anything you want to increase the charge or seating depth.

Since you’re not shooting subs, you want the most efficient/complete burn at the lowest muzzle pressure. This gives the suppressor less gas and sound to mitigate.

At the back end at the ejection port you want to delay the unlocking of the bolt as long as possible, and limit the excess gas. If the system wasn’t over gassed the begin with, it will be with the suppressor atratched. An adjustable block turned down to minimum needed for the bolt to lock will make a noticeable difference.

LMT makes an enhanced carrier that has a lengthened cam path that delays unlocking, it makes a noticeable difference in sound at the shooters ear. It also makes shooting an AR a bit less hard on the brass, it had more time to cool and shrink in the chamber before extraction.

Plenty of things you can do after finding a better powder, but a loud powder can’t be helped much.

I don’t shoot 223 so can’t give a recommendation, but the principles will hold true for any cartridge.

Thanks for the reply. Good points, I think. I realized, as I'd posted a few days ago, that I'd stepped off on the wrong foot after the first few replies came in. Your post only makes me more convinced I'd stepped off in it.

I think the consensus is that the H335 powder is a poor choice, which is in-tune with your statement about "loud powders". Your statement about the gas/sound to mitigate is understood. I tuned the gas with the suppressor attached (you're right, the addition of the suppressor makes a bigger difference than I would have thought before I ever had a suppressor).

I'm going to look up the carrier you mentioned. As one other responder mentioned, heavier buffer/spring combinations will delay unlock and help to mitigate the noise at the port. That's two votes for delaying unlocking of the bolt. I currently have both a JP SCS H2 and a Tubb's flat wire available. A traditional H2 buffer and the flat wire or the SCS H2 can be tested fairly easily. I've got some ideas (of my own and from these responses here) for loads I'd like to try first, though.

Thanks again.

--HC

 

[hboothe]

Most ball powders like H335 cause your problem. Give, depending on bullet weight, IMR 8208, Varget, RL15 stick powders a try.

Thanks for the reply. After my inadvertent field testing of some heavier bullet loads showed them to be quieter, I'm looking at heavier bullets. I immediately found RL15 data for the Sierra 69gr bullets and I have both of those components (plus Varget). I'll be trying some different loads for sure, and with heavier bullets.

--HC

 

[hboothe]

I got back home last night. I'd had plenty of time to read online for information for "reduced 223 remington loads" and my PDF of the Hornady 10th manual and to come up with some stuff I wanted to try. From the replies I'd read here, and my inadvertent field-testing of heavier loads in the same rifle, I'd realized I had gone off with sound logic that was out of tune with reality: a light powder charge behind a light bullet was not a sure-fire guarantee of a quiet suppressed SBR.

To finish out my attempts to use the 40gr Hornady V-Max (which I have way too many of), I had picked up some IMR 4198 and some Alliant Blue Dot. I loaded up two each of 5 different powder charges of each of the powders, plus 3 control cartridges using H335. All cartridges were loaded with the COL of 2.200" per the Hornady 10th manual for the .223 Remington and the 40gr V-Max. The IMR 4198 powder charge weights came from the Hodgdon website for 40gr Nosler BT and I started at the lowest charge of 19.5gr and went up 0.2gr per step to a maximum charge of 20.3gr. The Alliant Blue Dot powder charge weights came from posts/write-ups from several people across different websites with a maximum charge of 14gr and I backed off 0.5gr per step to a minimum charge of 12.0gr. Do NOT try the Blue Dot powder. I don't care what folks say on how many sites. Don't do it. Read my lips: No Blue Dot in .223 Remington. Period.

All cartridges were loaded to 2.200" OAL, had CCI #41 primers, were unpedigreed range brass which had been cleaned, sized, and trimmed appropriately. All charges were weighed individually, placed in the case, and a bullet was then IMMEDIATELY seated to prevent over/double charges.

The control rounds with H335 were still loud, of course, and gave me a baseline to compare more accurately the reports of the following rounds.

The test rounds with IMR 4198 were quieter but not by much. All cartridges with the IMR 4198 cycled the rifle properly. Muzzle velocity from the 12" barrel ran from low 2,700's @ 19.5gr to about an average of 2,900 w/ 20.3gr. There were no obvious signs of stress/damage to the cases: primers were not flattened, no ejector hole marks, no swipes, no primer eruptions. They all look fine after firing. Still, not quiet by a long shot (no pun intended).

The test rounds with Blue Dot were noticeably quieter. They also were inconsistent in report and MV, with one charge weight giving 207FPS difference across the two rounds. None of the Blue Dot cartridges cycled the rifle fully; the lower charges didn't even cock the hammer, with the heavier charges only cocking the hammer but not ejecting the brass. This could be corrected with adjusting the gas block, presumably, but other factors eliminate this powder from the mix. MV at 12.0gr was about 2,550FPS, up to right at 3,000FPS for the 14.0gr. However, I had ejector marks from the 12.5gr loads and up, on most of the cases. Worse, I had primer eruptions from 12.5gr and up, also inconsistently. Naturally, the 14.0gr loads were the worst (and both cases had the eruptions). I've loaded a fair number of .223 Remington for both bolt action and AR platforms and done workups to maximum charges with several bullets from several load data sources and have *never* had a primer eruption on this cartridge, no matter which primer I was using. I've seen flattened primers occasionally, but never eruptions. Only two of these primers flattened (one at 13.0gr and one at 14.0gr), but most had eruptions with the cases having ejector marks. I was a little unnerved by the inconsistent muzzle velocities and the inconsistent report from these cartridges. I am left with zero confidence in using this powder for this cartridge. I've read that you can dissolve Green Dot in acetone to make nitrocellulose lacquer for use in fireworks. Betcha Blue Dot will work, too. Betcha I'm gonna try that with the Blue Dot before I load any more rifle cartridges with it.

So, from the replies from you folks (thanks, always), and my firsthand experiences with the heavier bullets through this firearm, and the final application of "thinking" about the problem, where I am is I'm going to try heavier bullets with PUBLISHED powder/weights, sticking to the faster-burning powders. Per one suggestion, I'll contact YHM to see if they have any data they'll be willing to pass along, too. I have 60gr Nosler BT Varmint bullets that I have had great success with from my Valkyrie. I also have 73 and 75gr Hornady ELD-M (these have proven to be pretty nasty hunting projectiles, despite being "match" bullets) and some Hornady 68gr BTHP. I'll follow up with results as I obtain them.

--HC

 

[hboothe]

I got back home last night. I'd had plenty of time to read online for information for "reduced 223 remington loads" and my PDF of the Hornady 10th manual and to come up with some stuff I wanted to try. From the replies I'd read here, and my inadvertent field-testing of heavier loads in the same rifle, I'd realized I had gone off with sound logic that was out of tune with reality: a light powder charge behind a light bullet was not a sure-fire guarantee of a quiet suppressed SBR.

To finish out my attempts to use the 40gr Hornady V-Max (which I have way too many of), I had picked up some IMR 4198 and some Alliant Blue Dot. I loaded up two each of 5 different powder charges of each of the powders, plus 3 control cartridges using H335. All cartridges were loaded with the COL of 2.200" per the Hornady 10th manual for the .223 Remington and the 40gr V-Max. The IMR 4198 powder charge weights came from the Hodgdon website for 40gr Nosler BT and I started at the lowest charge of 19.5gr and went up 0.2gr per step to a maximum charge of 20.3gr. The Alliant Blue Dot powder charge weights came from posts/write-ups from several people across different websites with a maximum charge of 14gr and I backed off 0.5gr per step to a minimum charge of 12.0gr. Do NOT try the Blue Dot powder. I don't care what folks say on how many sites. Don't do it. Read my lips: No Blue Dot in .223 Remington. Period.

All cartridges were loaded to 2.200" OAL, had CCI #41 primers, were unpedigreed range brass which had been cleaned, sized, and trimmed appropriately. All charges were weighed individually, placed in the case, and a bullet was then IMMEDIATELY seated to prevent over/double charges.

The control rounds with H335 were still loud, of course, and gave me a baseline to compare more accurately the reports of the following rounds.

The test rounds with IMR 4198 were quieter but not by much. All cartridges with the IMR 4198 cycled the rifle properly. Muzzle velocity from the 12" barrel ran from low 2,700's @ 19.5gr to about an average of 2,900 w/ 20.3gr. There were no obvious signs of stress/damage to the cases: primers were not flattened, no ejector hole marks, no swipes, no primer eruptions. They all look fine after firing. Still, not quiet by a long shot (no pun intended).

The test rounds with Blue Dot were noticeably quieter. They also were inconsistent in report and MV, with one charge weight giving 207FPS difference across the two rounds. None of the Blue Dot cartridges cycled the rifle fully; the lower charges didn't even cock the hammer, with the heavier charges only cocking the hammer but not ejecting the brass. This could be corrected with adjusting the gas block, presumably, but other factors eliminate this powder from the mix. MV at 12.0gr was about 2,550FPS, up to right at 3,000FPS for the 14.0gr. However, I had ejector marks from the 12.5gr loads and up, on most of the cases. Worse, I had primer eruptions from 12.5gr and up, also inconsistently. Naturally, the 14.0gr loads were the worst (and both cases had the eruptions). I've loaded a fair number of .223 Remington for both bolt action and AR platforms and done workups to maximum charges with several bullets from several load data sources and have *never* had a primer eruption on this cartridge, no matter which primer I was using. I've seen flattened primers occasionally, but never eruptions. Only two of these primers flattened (one at 13.0gr and one at 14.0gr), but most had eruptions with the cases having ejector marks. I was a little unnerved by the inconsistent muzzle velocities and the inconsistent report from these cartridges. I am left with zero confidence in using this powder for this cartridge. I've read that you can dissolve Green Dot in acetone to make nitrocellulose lacquer for use in fireworks. Betcha Blue Dot will work, too. Betcha I'm gonna try that with the Blue Dot before I load any more rifle cartridges with it.

So, from the replies from you folks (thanks, always), and my firsthand experiences with the heavier bullets through this firearm, and the final application of "thinking" about the problem, where I am is I'm going to try heavier bullets with PUBLISHED powder/weights, sticking to the faster-burning powders. Per one suggestion, I'll contact YHM to see if they have any data they'll be willing to pass along, too. I have 60gr Nosler BT Varmint bullets that I have had great success with from my Valkyrie. I also have 73 and 75gr Hornady ELD-M (these have proven to be pretty nasty hunting projectiles, despite being "match" bullets) and some Hornady 68gr BTHP. I'll follow up with results as I obtain them.

--HC

Okay, well, it's been a bit. I forgot to contact YHM...still need to do that. I did, however, try loading some 68gr Hornady BTHP projectiles over Hodgdon IMR-4198 (mirroring a load from Hodgdon for a 69gr Sierra projectile). I loaded 0.2gr over the LOWEST charge listed (18.5gr used), using CCI #41 primers. The report of the weapon was reduced appreciably, but I have no way to quantify the change. The muzzle velocity was a pitiful 2,200 FPS, but there were zero indications of pressure problems (primers not flattened, no swipes or extrusions on the case head, rifle not put back into kit-form). For my intended purpose (readily-handy weapon for killing stray dogs, or the occasional daylight coyote on my property), this is sufficient load development at this time. If I were to develop the load further I would work up the powder charge to increase the muzzle velocity; I'd like to see at least 2,600 FPS. But...I have other things in life to do and when I'm playing reloading and load development, I'm working on loads for my 224V for hogs and coyotes; this weapon and usage is a distant secondary consideration.

Thanks for the time and input.

--HC

 

[hboothe]

Okay, I have contacted YHM now. The person I spoke with indicated that they did not have any load data available. Furthermore, they claimed that they (YHM) test, and rate for sound levels, their suppressors with factory ammunition. That makes sense, okay, fine. Then I asked what they tested with an he said Winchester, American Eagle, and Federal. He said, when he'd seen in the storage area, that mostly it appeared to be American Eagle and 55gr projectiles at that. So, I'll get some American Eagle 55gr ammo and try that, just to test it out.

Not a lot of good information there, sorry.

--HC