How to choose between multiple loads

[JFrank]

Load 24.9 and play with seating depth in .003 increments.

Why not 24.2 ?

 

[Rustytigwire]

Great reading.
More please...!

 

[Bc'z]

Why not 24.2 ?

Horsepower for starters.
I'm betting with a lil tweeking of seating depth 24.8-25 would be 1 hole groups.
Load 24.9

I would probably work on seating before investigating higher powder charge.

 

[lgwatson]

This is my first post here. However I have been lurking for years and have learned a great deal from you all.
Thank you.

I have been reloading for just over a year, and am developing a new load:
.223 60gr VMAX with Vihtavuori N140, rifle is R700 1in12.
I am aiming to create the most accurate load I can with these components in order to shoot as far as possible (up to 700 yards).
These cannot be changed at this time, so all I have to play with are powder charge and seating depth.

I fired 3 groups of 3 rounds with different powder charges at 100yds. The problem is, they’re all incredibly good groups!
5 of the loads gave average groups of less than 0.5”. All the rounds landed at the point of aim and grouped very well, no signs of excess pressure.
They were shot in the same weather conditions on the same day, and they are so close in size I cannot choose which is best.
I do not have access to a chronograph nor will I any time soon.
I only have regular access to a 200 yard range.

Do I choose the smallest group size even if it is only thousandths smaller than another?
Do I shoot more groups of each? Perhaps 3 groups of 5 rounds for each load?
Do I test them all at 200 yards?
Do I choose the the least powder charge to save money?
Or favour the highest powder charge to potentially give it more power at range or increased velocity?

The best loads (based on group size alone) were 24.4, 24.6, 24.8, and 25.0.

Any advise, experience, opinions would be very much appreciated.

Cheers.

You might try your ladder test at 300 yds.

 

[BritishBuffoon]

Horsepower for starters.
I'm betting with a lil tweeking of seating depth 24.8-25 would be 1 hole groups.
Load 24.9

I would probably work on seating before investigating higher powder charge.

Thank you for your advice, I will try that

 

[BritishBuffoon]

i read an article once that a lot of guys in Canada were shooting 75 gr bullets in a 223 for some kind of competition. Slower but better BC. Less wind drift.

I tried 69gr and couldn’t stabilise them at all, I think 60-62 is as heavy as I can get in my 1-12 twist

 

[BritishBuffoon]

you might want to temper your expectations.
a 60 at 700 yards from a 223 is not going to end up being much of an aimed shot.
have you looked at the ballistics ?
just punch it into jbm
how long is your round
what does your empty brass weigh/what brand

I know 700 is a long way for 60gr, but I was regularly hitting steel at 700 with 55gr a few months ago, and 60gr is the heaviest I seem to be able to stabilise. Not sure I could shoot good groups anything over 300 but it’s capable of repeatable steel hits on greater distance in low wind

 

[JFrank]

Horsepower for starters.
I'm betting with a lil tweeking of seating depth 24.8-25 would be 1 hole groups.
Load 24.9

I would probably work on seating before investigating higher powder charge.

Well I thought this was about poi similarities not group shape or size.
One person mentioned a low charge so I looked in my Nosler book and of course this is only one resource, is Varget close to VV140?

 

[Rdlningcltchdmpr]

Why not 24.2 ?

24.2 is about 10% under max. Why would anyone do that ? Especially without having tested the proper higher loads ?

 

[Rdlningcltchdmpr]

View attachment 1151410
Well I thought this was about poi similarities not group shape or size.
One person mentioned a low charge so I looked in my Nosler book and of course this is only one resource, is Varget close to VV140?

Varget is not the same . vihtavuory load data shows n135 closer to varget.

 

[JFrank]

24.2 is about 10% under max. Why would anyone do that ? Especially without having tested the proper higher loads ?

I’m curious as to your resources to support that it’s a low charge
I’m looking for a burn chart I had saved but iirc Varget and vv140 were very close ,

 

[Rdlningcltchdmpr]

Horsepower for starters.
I'm betting with a lil tweeking of seating depth 24.8-25 would be 1 hole groups.
Load 24.9

I would probably work on seating before investigating higher powder charge.

His load is 10%+ below max ! Playing with seating depth at this point is a waste of components and time.

 

[JFrank]

Varget is not the same . vihtavuory load data shows n135 closer to varget.

I’ll beg to differ on this one.
No disrespect intended of course..
J

 

[Medic505]

I’ll beg to differ on this one.
No disrespect intended of course..
J

I agree.
N-135 is closer to 4895.

With the lots I have on hand, Varget is slower than N-140. Not by much, but there is a difference.

 

[Bc'z]

View attachment 1151410
Well I thought this was about poi similarities not group shape or size.
One person mentioned a low charge so I looked in my Nosler book and of course this is only one resource, is Varget close to VV140?

It is about poi.
Look at the target agian, 24.6 through 25 are holding roughly same elevation on target.
It just so happens the groups are shrinking also coming into an accuracy node.

 

[JFrank]

Same thing for 24.2-24.4
Humm
I’ may never get this OCD stuff

At least can I fall back to my vertical ladder test.

 

[Bc'z]

His load is 10%+ below max ! Playing with seating depth at this point is a waste of components and time.

Not necessarily.
Rough charge weight
Seating depth
Fine tune charge.
Then of course he can always play with neck tension and primers.

Last year I played with varget in my 6five pushing 136 scenars. I'd increase neck tension by .001 and my accuracy charge weight was .5gr less than the load with less neck tension.

 

[Bc'z]

Same thing for 24.2-24.4
Humm
I’ may never get this OCD stuff

At least can I fall back to my vertical ladder test.

Yes you are correct.
In a 223 case were probably talking about a 100fps velocity increase.
It just so happens he's coming into an accuracy node with the increase of powder lower charges are in scatter mode.
I'm getting my coffee now.

 

[JFrank]

Yes
Go get yer coffee, you’ve earned it!

 

[Burnt Powder]

Wait a week, reshoot a 5 shot group of your three best groups, see if anything changes. If not, cull two of those and play with powder charge a couple tenths at a time till you chicken out or groups open up. Then play with seating depth. I like to go in .010s each way until I see a trend. Then adjust accordingly. Keep in mind technique and glass is a huge influence on group size. Some days are better than others too. That’s why I suggest to go back a week or more later and reshoot your best three targets. You might be surprised the difference you see, or maybe not, hopefully. I hate to work up a load on one day and then find out I was barking up the wrong tree. Been there, done that, more than once!

BP