How Much Lathe?

[eectech]

I'm looking into lathes and found this one from Grizzly and was wondering if you guys think it's enough lathe for chambering barrels. The spindle bore is 1 7/16" but does that mean it will accept stock that big or will the actual size of stock it will accept be smaller? I only have a small space for it and my budget is limited but from what I can tell this would be a good starter lathe. What are your opinions? Thanks alot guys.

http://www.grizzly.com/products/G4002

 

[tightneck]

While you may be able to chamber a barrel through the headstock, you will be limited with a 24" bed. Also, the heavier the lathe the better IMHO and this one is on the light side. A few years ago I wanted the same thing you did, a lathe that wouldn't break the bank and didn't take up too much space. Most folks that replied to my threads advised a 13x40 with a few saying a 12x36 was sufficient. I settled on the 36. It does a great job for me but if I had to do it again, I would spend the extra money. The extra weight and rigidity are very nice and another 4" on the bed would not be an issue.


Nice in the 36 range
http://www.grizzly.com/products/G9249 or
http://www.grizzly.com/products/G4003G

This would be nice in the 40" range
http://www.grizzly.com/products/G9036

The 13x40 toolroom lathes would be the best, but they are pricy.

 

[wnroscoe]

I have the G4003G and so far have chambered a .338 Edge with a 30" Hart 1000 yard BR taper barrel and re-chambered, set back, a 6mmBR with a 1.250"x30" straight taper. These were chambered through the head stock with no problem. The G4003G would be a nice Lathe to start with and will probably last you a while.

 

[TEAMKIESS]

eectech, I sent you an email about lathes.
Mike

 

[tmbryant]

I used a belt drive Jet bench lathe for years and built a lot of rifles with it. It was about comparable to the G9249. The difference in cost between the 4002 and the 4003 is only $100. For that amount of money, I wouldn't even consider the 4002. It looks like the difference between them is only in the distance between centers. 36" between centers is good, 40" is better.

 

[ConnorExum]

Isn't the question how fast and how big of an object do you want to work on?

 

[butchlambert]

No
Butch

 

[jamesh]

I don’t know if you plan on buying the stand also but if you do with shipping there is only $300 difference between the 4002 and the 4003G. For that $300 you get a spider on the outboard end of the spindle so you can chamber through the headstock, roller bearings on the steady and follow rest as apposed to brass points, either NSK or Timken bearings in the headstock,mine came with Timken) the others have cheaper bearings, 1 5/8” spindle bore instead of 1 7/16”, tighter tolerance specification,but I am not sure what the difference is) and an additional 12" of bed.
I am glad I went with the 4003G instead of any of the cheaper models.
James

 

[Preacher]

The second new Lathe I bought after using the small one for lots of years was another JET, and instead of a 12X24 this one is a 13X40 and never a complaint, except for maybe the little one whining because it don't get much use anymore...........

 

[ConnorExum]

No
Butch

I guess you guys like to work slowly on your projects...

Whatever floats your boat...

However, if I were to buy a lathe this would be my choice...

Nardini would be my choice in lathes something that is really designed to work in a tool room.

 

[butchlambert]

ConnerExum,
I am a little dense. What lathe are you speaking of for gunsmith work? Are you suggesting a Nardini for other work than smithing?
Butch

 

[ConnorExum]

ConnerExum,
I am a little dense. What lathe are you speaking of for gunsmith work? Are you suggesting a Nardini for other work than smithing?
Butch

Let's face it if your going to do the job whether it is for yourself or others you might as well get the best possible tool to do it. Or so my older brother the Tool and Die Maker told me. So he suggested Nardini and since I'm a philosophy Student and he works in metal, hell I think he dreams in metal he suggested a used Nardini...

The lathe seems to be your bread and butter tool in gun smithing so he suggested getting a machine that can do a job fast and accurately.

like this:

http://inv.ammetalmaq.com/q/webinv/000502=iform,4646,0L3000,,list,,,20086129,,

 

[memilanuk]

Connor,

Bear in mind my experience with chambering barrels, etc. is pretty much limited to what I read here and there, a few glimpses at the gunsmith's shop, and a day at a friend's home shop watching him thread and chamber a barrel on a Grizzly lathe. But it seems to me that about 90% of the time/effort is spent setting up for the cut - once its set up right, the actual cutting doesn't seem to take that long. So being able to do things 'faster' may not be as much a function of the capacity of the lathe, etc. as it is the skill of the operator in getting things dialed in. Granted, better quality equipment probably allows that to occur quicker/ more easily, but I think a lot of people here interested in a lathe are doing this as a hobby... as in for the fun or challenge of it - not as some kind of race to see who can do it the fastest. Someone who is a tool-n-die person making a living with the machine - sure, a Nardini or Hardinge would be a better choice. A hobbyist chambering a couple barrels/dies a year, and miscellaneous small projects in between... pretty tough to justify the ten thousand dollars difference.



YMMV,

Monte

 

[butchlambert]

ConnerExum,
I certainly wouldn't use that lathe for smithing. It is too long throught the headstock to chamber it in the headstock. The different brands of lathes will not speed up chambering. A lightweight lathe and a cheap lathe can chamber just as fast as a good stable and expensive one. That being said, The only thing that is real important in a lathe for chambering is the tightness and the runout of your headstock bearings. The ways can be completely worn out and it won't affect a chamber job. Ask your Bro about that.
Butch

 

[ConnorExum]

Connor,

Bear in mind my experience with chambering barrels, etc. is pretty much limited to what I read here and there, a few glimpses at the gunsmith's shop, and a day at a friend's home shop watching him thread and chamber a barrel on a Grizzly lathe. But it seems to me that about 90% of the time/effort is spent setting up for the cut - once its set up right, the actual cutting doesn't seem to take that long. So being able to do things 'faster' may not be as much a function of the capacity of the lathe, etc. as it is the skill of the operator in getting things dialed in. Granted, better quality equipment probably allows that to occur quicker/ more easily, but I think a lot of people here interested in a lathe are doing this as a hobby... as in for the fun or challenge of it - not as some kind of race to see who can do it the fastest.



YMMV,

Monte

Yeah absolutely right about setup... My metal cutting experience is vastly inferior to my brothers but basically the faster you can turn the spindle and more feet per minute you run the table at the better off you when it comes to making a deep cut. If you desire to do so.

The key to any good lathe are the ways. If the ways flex or blend under stress you have serious issues hitting your numbers. My brother says that Grizzly's ways are soft and that if you want to cut tough stuff on it you put way too much stress on the machine. 416R he claims is hard to machine,so are some of the Ghrome-Moly Alloys but hey barrels need to be tough). I don't know the most I've machined is here and there on his stuff... A Bridge Port Number I Knee Milling Machine and South Bend Lathe 16x40 inch... That was used by an old tool and die maker turned gun smith and he said it was not optimal he wished he had a 17x60 with a pure gear head. But it has 2hp or 3hp single phase conversion motor, but it is a Tool Room lathe it is not small at all. It weighs close to 2,000lbs decked out. So it is serious piece of machinery.

 

[ConnorExum]

ConnerExum,
I certainly wouldn't use that lathe for smithing. It is too long throught the headstock to chamber it in the headstock. The different brands of lathes will not speed up chambering. A lightweight lathe and a cheap lathe can chamber just as fast as a good stable and expensive one. That being said, The only thing that is real important in a lathe for chambering is the tightness and the runout of your headstock bearings. The ways can be completely worn out and it won't affect a chamber job. Ask your Bro about that.
Butch

Okay, I consulted the magic eight-ball for you Butch and it is not looking good for you.

1) he says that the head-stock is not going to be an issue with Nodus model for chambering. You can stick the barrel through the head no problem...

2) The chamber he says is question of your tolerances, if you want to maintain a very accurate chamber than the ways will affect your machining process. If you have large tolerances it will not matter. But if you want accuracy you have to have accurate ways and accurate headstocks.


3) he says that Nardini isn't better than Grizzly, Monarch is better than Nardini... In fact the Monarch's the older ones are the best 1960-1970's are the best he said and if you can pick one up that is the one to get.

Monarch would be his choice used. Nardini new becaue of the price...


His advice is this if you going to play in the metal get a tool that works well. But get whatever floats your boat...

 

[butchlambert]

ConnerExum,
You are out of your element here. 416R and chromoly barrels are very easy to machine. You do not take big cuts as most blanks that we use are 1.200-1.250 in diameter and most tenons are in the area
of 1.062. I am not a Grizzly fan, but it could be as good a gunsmith lathe out there, especially pricewise. Look at the specs., I believe it will have as fast a spindle speed and feed as the Nardini. Now if you are in a machine shop and working heavy stuff every day, a good LeBlond or Monarch are the ticket. Tell you brother that the ways are not an issue on a chambering lathe. The only time the ways are used in chambering is cutting and threading the tenon. Most tenons are 1" in length and worn out ways will have very very little affect on the tenon over a 1" length. I have nothing against heavy and quality lathes, but they are not necessary for a chambering lathe.
Butch

 

[ConnorExum]

Butch I should just let him answer those questions because he really has the proper answers that I could not do justice to...

 

[butchlambert]

Connerexum,
No, but what does that have to do with the subject? Are you or your Bro a gunsmith? How many barrels have you chambered or him? I'm sure your Bro is a talented machine person and that is not my contention. If you will read my posts you will not see me say that a Nardini is a POS. It is a decent machineshop lathe. If you and your Bro will look at a barrel set up in the headstock for chambering, then tell me why I am wrong. I just don't want any of this"Butch is wrong because my Bro is a tool and diemaker". Give your Bro a call and if you know how they are setup, ask him how soft ways affect chambering. Ask him how much machine is required to cut a 1" long tenon from 1.250 to 1.062 in diameter. Ask him how much faster a $17,000 machine can do it than a $3000 machine.
Mr. Connerexum, we are only discussing the lathe in the context of chambering a rifle, not a tooling shop machine. Your Bro and I would probably agree on machines that we would like to use in a machine shop environment.
Butch

 

[ConnorExum]

Butch:

what about a straight taper? If you go from 1.250 at the start of the taper to .900 at the muzzle, that's .350 of inch that's a pretty big cut to make if you sit around turning cutting small amounts. Sure you might make it over 26 or 28 inches but still that is large amount of material to move.