How many rounds until you start load workup?

[MikeT49]

I typically use about 10 rounds figuring out what Burris inserts I need. Then, I can use minimal scope adjustment to final zero. Preferably just a few clicks. Clean every round til it's wet patch, dry patch, 2nd dry patch is clean. Usually about 3 rounds. Then finish the zero job. Clean when zero established. Then shoot the SOB.

 

[Evan]

I have never found any advantage to shoot and clean, so I think it's good you minimize that. Other guys like to do that for 50+ rounds. I know some competitors that think a barrel doesn't shoot its best until 200 rounds, and another who thinks the best accuracy is with as new of a barrel as possible. Both approaches have success.

100 pieces won't get me through a two or four day match with one rifle. I like to show up with enough cases ready to go.

Most of the time, I'm bringing all my reloading out with me and that first 9 rounds is loaded up one at a time, laddering up to find my high end with my magnetospeed. I won't call it max pressure, cause I don't really go there; it's just up to where I want to stop, speedwise, so that I have a range to work in for load development. So it's not just an exercise in wasted rounds for some "break-in" procedure, which I don't really believe in but I pay it basic service so that if I have problems, the barrel makers and gunsmiths can't say I completely ignored "accepted standard procedures"

I've not been to a multi-day match, so 100 rounds has always got me through an entire day. If you need 2 or 300 to get through a multi-day match, that's a great reason to prep more. For normal practice shooting, I only put 50 down the barrel in a session. I'm just suggesting that how much brass you're prepping should be based in logic and not emotion, if you're trying to maximize the number of top accuracy rounds you get down the barrel before it is worn out - which I think we are in agreement on.

 

[David Christian]

IMHO, the cleaning technique on break-in truly works if you care about eliminating copper buildup later on in the barrel’s life. Those first few rounds down the tube (even custom barrels) are smoothing out any imperfections. Cleaning out the top layer of carbon and then attacking the copper will prevent further copper deposits from accumulating.

 

[Bill Norris]

I was told by a well respected gentleman on the site here that has done his fair share of shooting about how he did barrel break-in. Sounded like a good method to me so I tried it and liked it. So far my barrels are all doing fine so I guess they like it too. Shoot 5 - clean. Shoot 5 - clean. Shoot 25 - clean. All done and ready to roll.

 

[INTJ]

Ok thanks, I was just curious since I’ve got some fresh brass I’m thinking about just hitting them with the full recipe, hells bells it’ll probably shoot inside my other brass.
We also have a 270 WSM at the ranch I’m gettin ready to work up a hopefully decent load for. Any powder tips ???

I am not the guy to ask about fireforming the BRA with a bullet. I think the standard is to use a top 6 BR load and go with that. Also not sure about the 270 WSM, but the 300 WSM likes RL 23, H4831SC, and H4350.

 

[INTJ]

IMHO, the cleaning technique on break-in truly works if you care about eliminating copper buildup later on in the barrel’s life. Those first few rounds down the tube (even custom barrels) are smoothing out any imperfections. Cleaning out the top layer of carbon and then attacking the copper will prevent further copper deposits from accumulating.

I often see this as the reason for the various break in procedures. I am sure it works and I in fact used to do all that. However, I don't have copper fouling issues later in my barrel life when I don't do any kind of break in. I will clean after 20-30 rounds the first 2 or three range sessions. After that I clean every 70-90 rounds. I have no accuracy fall off. When I clean I get all the carbon out and most of the copper as verified by my Hawkeye bore scope.

 

[Willie]

I shoot mostly wildcats & A.I.s, so I turn and sort about 150 cases per barrel. I fireform them all, while doing the first 20-25 for barrel break-in. After forming, I'll do some rough seating depth tests and pressure tests with a couple of different components, though my brass is not 100%.

I get serious about finding a load after the brass is fully formed with two firings and about 200 rounds fired in each barrel. Because my rifles are for hunting and I never shoot them hot, I have years of barrel life left.

I can't prove that break-in is necessary on custom lapped barrels, but I know I'm not hurting them.

 

[ronsatspokane]

I haven't been through the volume of barrels some folks here have but I've been through a few in a number of different calibers. Having a rifle that shoots with a barrel that is getting long in the tooth where the groups are opening up and the fire cracking is scary to look at only to swap to a nice new barrel and it will not shoot even as well as the shagged barrel did. It has been my observation that a barrel with either shoot well from the first round fired or it won't. I've been down that path of trying to get a barrel to shoot for months and going on 400 rounds of load development changing all the variables. Primers, powders, powder charges, bullets, brass, seating depth only to give up, order a replacement barrel and suddenly the rifle shoots well using the original load of the shagged barrel.

Using a bore scope to see why yields no information. I've had barrels that look like the lands where cut by hand with a chisel and had tooling marks the length of them shoot less than 1/2 MOA consistently. I've had other barrels that looked like they had been crafted by Michelangelo himself, smooth as a baby's butt from chamber to muzzle that would barely shoot 1 MOA on a good day. That has not stopped me from beating my head against the wall trying to get a bad barrel to shoot though. It's hard to admit that you just wasted a large sum of money on a new barrel.

The result of this is that these days I start load development with the first round fired. Shooting 5 shot groups and cleaning between every group for the first 25 or so rounds. It should be noted however that I am relatively new to F Class and I am not a top national shooter. There are those on this board who are and who chamber their own barrels. It would be interesting to hear their thoughts.

 

[MikeT49]

I am just a hunter who likes interesting guns. Google: "Gale McMillan Barrel Break in"

 

[tom]

Round 1 assuming i have a designated fire form gun and brass ready to go(which i do). My latest barrel on my orange gun showed me a zero at 30.2, and 10 off in the first 20 rounds. The load after speed up and exploring wound up 12-13 off, and 30.0...same velocity. I tune powder at the matches, and load there. Wasteful to not find coarse seating, the right bushing, the right powder, the right bullet early on....but not the end of the world if you don't either.

Tom

 

[Dusty Stevens]

Round one starts development. Id hate to think i had to burn 25% of its best life waiting to get going. You have to adjust your load at least daily anyway so get started right off the bat

 

[johnfred1965]

Just as every range session should have a goal and yield some progress, I think every shot through a barrel should be useful to some extent. If it be zeroing your scope, fireforming, rough load and seating setup, it all works toward getting the right load and a properly broke-in barrel. As others have said, it may take a bit of tweaking after your barrel speeds up, but no sense waiting til you get there to start your work.

 

[D-4297]

From what I've read here , most of the answers have come from the BR crowd . From a F class shooter , I do a break-in on new barrels . I shoot TR .308 , and have changed barrels on both my TR rifle , and M-N .308 Open rifle last year . The Kelby TR .308 had 5,600 rounds when it opened up like a shotgun . The M-N had 4,700 rounds and it was still shooting in the mid 190's when pulled . I don't load hot , and don't chase velocities . Break-in is the "Kreiger" recommended method , and it's worked okay for me . Besides ; I don't have a rack full of barrels in the garage . I say do whatever you think works for you . And until somebody starts giving me a couple new barrels every year , I'm going to keep doin my break-in process .

 

[Nightraider]

Barrel break in is as much metallurgical as it is physical. I hate to be the bad guy here but 25rds isn't breaking in a barrel, load development on a new barrel isn't going to be stable, and there are too many variables changing until the bore has passivated. @Dusty Stevens it may take 25% of a barrels life to become passive and stable, until that point the barrel will continue to change until full passivstion is reached, this is directly in regards to your comment. Once the barrels bore is hardened to its full potential(for that given environment) only then will it stay stable until erosion disrupts that stability. Most 223/308 based cartridges take on average 200-300 to fully harden, magnums take about half that. Powder plays a giant role in this, a 6.5CM that only had H4831SC shot through it took 2100rds to fully stabilize the surface hardness of the bore. Once it did, no more changes in velocity or seating depth. Again, whatever a barrel company recommends is fine but science rules everything. I always liken the "recommended" break in process to a tire dealer telling you that your new tires need 30min of burn outs to be ready to use.

 

[Dusty Stevens]

Barrel break in is as much metallurgical as it is physical. I hate to be the bad guy here but 25rds isn't breaking in a barrel, load development on a new isn't going to be stable, and there are too many variables changing until the bore has passivated. @Dusty Stevens it may take 25% of a barrels life to become passive and stable, until that point the barrel will continue to change until full passivstion is reached, this is directly in regards to your comment. Once the barrels bore is hardened to its full potential(for that given environment) only then will it stay stable until erosion disrupts that stability. Most 223/308 based cartridges take on average 200-300 to fully harden, magnums take about half that. Powder plays a giant role in this, a 6.5CM the only had H4831SC shot through it took 2100rds to fully stabilize the surface hardness of the bore. Once it did, no more changes in velocity or seating depth. Again, whatever a barrel company recommends is fine but science rules everything. I always liken the "recommended" break in process to a tire dealer telling you that you're new tires need 30min of burn outs to be ready to use.

I guess its all in what youre after. 2000 rds on a 6mm barrel its not going to win much but itll get a coyote. 2000rds on a 22rf barrel and it still has reamer marks in the leade. A 6mm at 2500rds may not be passivated yet but its wore smooth out

 

[Nightraider]

I guess its all in what youre after. 2000 rds on a 6mm barrel its not going to win much but itll get a coyote. 2000rds on a 22rf barrel and it still has reamer marks in the leade. A 6mm at 2500rds may not be passivated yet but its wore smooth out

At 2500rds it's beyond passivation, it's into the destruction stage. Heat/ pressure/ lack of oxygen all create an atmosphere for hardening, which is what's happening and why it takes ~200rds for a barrel to settle in. Anything prior to that heat treatment process being completed you'll have instability, que the BR crowds tuning everyday. My point is as Alex Wheeler once said, regardless of what your break in method is, if you shot enough your barrel will do it on its own.

 

[Forum Boss]

On my 6BR, rounds 15-18 (the first carefully aimed shots) on new PacNor barrel went into a witnessed very low 2. That was with new brass .010" off the lands and 30.00 grains Varget. I subsequently brought that up to 30.2-30.3 (depending on the season), about .006" in the lands. The gun shot great from the start. We have had similar experiences with Krieger, Brux, and Broughton barrels.

Other people tell me some barrels do seem to require a significant number of rounds for the velocity to stabilize (though accuracy may be good early). They have seen that with .284 Wins.

But with the 6BR, my load development was complete in about 40 rounds.

I'm convinced that many guys doing multiple days of load development are spinning their wheels. Sometimes that is necessary or you have to chase tune. But with small cartridges and top-flight barrels, you may be able to compete nearly right out of the gate.

Nightraider wrote: "Barrel break in is as much metallurgical as it is physical. I hate to be the bad guy here but 25rds isn't breaking in a barrel, load development on a new barrel isn't going to be stable, and there are too many variables changing until the bore has passivated. @Dusty Stevens it may take 25% of a barrels life to become passive and stable, until that point the barrel will continue to change until full passivstion is reached, this is directly in regards to your comment."

^ ^ Honestly, this has NOT been my experience at all. Not at all, and frankly I think this claim is NOT substantiated by tunnel evidence or otherwise. That said, some weird barrels may take a long time to settle in to "final velocity".

Regarding 25% of barrel life to settle in. Absolutely NOT in my experience with Brux, Krieger, Lilja, Bartlein, Pac-Nor. Shoot the thing. I have heard one guy who says it takes 200 rounds to stabilize his velocity... but honestly I think that is really rare.

 

[Elwood]

Regarding 25% of barrel life to settle in. Absolutely NOT in my experience with Brux, Krieger, Lilja, Bartlein, Pac-Nor. Shoot the thing. I have heard one guy who says it takes 200 rounds to stabilize his velocity... but honestly I think that is really rare.

Well isn't that just Sod's law.
I have a Bartlein .308 that was showing tremendous promise up until shot 230 after which the groups opened up and the velocity jumped 60-70 fps. Initially I thought it was the temperature rising from 9c to 17c, I re-shot the loads again when the temperature had dropped back down but the 60 fps increase was still There.
Luckily I do all my load development over the Labradar so I knew where I had to be to get it back in tune. I dropped 1 grain and worked back up to the speeds where it was accurate.
My conclusion is that you can start load development early so long as you know the speeds where it's accurate.

 

[Dgd6mm]

The first one down the barrel.

 

[Idaho-Lefty]

Ok thanks, I was just curious since I’ve got some fresh brass I’m thinking about just hitting them with the full recipe, hells bells it’ll probably shoot inside my other brass.
We also have a 270 WSM at the ranch I’m gettin ready to work up a hopefully decent load for. Any powder tips ???

For the .270 WSM,. I'm using, IMR 7828 SSC, @ 64.7 grains, F-215 Mag Primers, Rem Brass and it's producing, 3,140 FPS with, the Nosler 140 grain AccuBonds and 1 3/8" Ctr to Ctr groups at, 200 Yards out of, my Tikka T-3 SS, 24" barrel with 1-10 Twist. I "Lap / polish", all my NEW Factory Bores with, JB's on a Patch over a Bronze Brush, a few Strokes ( one way ! ) Clean WELL, then shoot 5, Clean again,.. DONE ! Bore NEVER "holds" much Copper and,.. cleans easily !
The AccuBond is, an Elk slayer and does NOT, blow up much Meat ( tested them personally, on Elk ). Work Load up, in YOUR, Rifle,.. carefully ! Good Luck !
Might read David Christian's Post #23, I agree TOTALLY with, this for, "Factory new", UN- lapped, Barrels !