I recently replaced my Lilja barrel with a Hart barrel. I have a Rem 700 action and a Jewel trigger. It is a 22-250. This is my third custom barrel. Is it normal for it to take up to 600 rounds until it shoots good. By that I mean under 1/2". This barrel was shooting at 3/4 or more until I hit 600 rds. Yesterday 8 5 shot groups averaged .41 at 100 yds. One group was .17.
How many rounds till a barrel shoots good
- Thread starter Poconolg
- Start date
17VLD
Gold $$ Contributor
I am assuming you are hand loading or are these factory loads.Most of the factory rifles I’ve had rebarreled shot very well from the beginning.Having said that most bench rest shooters get very serious at the 200 round mark.My 22-250s Love H380 and H-414.I would think 38.0 of H-380 with any 50-55 grain bullet should shoot like you want it to,seating depth will make a big difference as well.Hart makes great barrels,also what twist do you have,lots of variables here.
Matt
Matt
I am handloading. Twist is 1-14 my other barrels shot very good with 34gr 2520 and a BIB bullet. Finally yesterday this load worked. Have tried other powders and other bullets- Sierra, Berger and Barts. Up until now nothing worked. yesterday also used IMR 4895 33gr, that shot 2 3/8" groups.
Never had luck with H380. Am using Redding bushing dies and I anneal. The groups yesterday were .004 off lands
Never had luck with H380. Am using Redding bushing dies and I anneal. The groups yesterday were .004 off lands
You don't say what bullet weight. I have found most .224 cal. shoots best jumped. My son used a trued 700 22/250 Hvy. Bbl, 1/14, in SR BR and did remarkably well considering it had a 6.5-20 x scope and non-custom bullets. The load was 41.0 gr./ H-380, 55 gr. V-max, Fed. case, Fed. 215 M. IME H-380 needs a hot primer. These were jumped ~ 0.20-0.30". This was under match conditions where you had 10 minutes to shoot at 5 targets x 5 matches (25 targets total) with a range full of windflags. He reads conditions very well. Also I have found that the .224 cal. rifles need to be cleaned every other match (~20 shots) while the 6mms can go 3 matches ~ 30 rnds, and the .30 BR can go the full agg (60 rnds) for best accuracy.
If it takes 600 rounds for a custom barrel to shoot "good" something is terribly wrong.
My match barrels (Douglas and Hart) shoot to 1/2 moa once I find the optimum load for that rifle. It isn't much different than with the quality factory rifles I have had, especially Tikka's, Brownings, Weatherby Mark V. With the Remington, unless supplied with a bedding block in the stock such as with their varmint grade models, all required bedding or stock replacement to shoot consistently in the 1/2 moa range.
This of course assumes that the rifle is properly bedded and there are no mechanical defects in the bore. I had one factory rifle, a Rem 700, 22 250 that would not shoot to within 2 moa which was later confirmed by the Remington as having defect bore. But that is the exception, within 10 rounds after successful load development, my rifles are shooting "good".
Factors often ignored to account for less than desirable results when testing for accuracy are: the bench method used, shot sequence and resultant heating of barrel, environmental conditions, and skill of the shooter in testing. Perhaps the reason yesterday's groups were "good" and they were, is that you have mastered the above factors and has nothing to do with hitting the "600" round mark.
My match barrels (Douglas and Hart) shoot to 1/2 moa once I find the optimum load for that rifle. It isn't much different than with the quality factory rifles I have had, especially Tikka's, Brownings, Weatherby Mark V. With the Remington, unless supplied with a bedding block in the stock such as with their varmint grade models, all required bedding or stock replacement to shoot consistently in the 1/2 moa range.
This of course assumes that the rifle is properly bedded and there are no mechanical defects in the bore. I had one factory rifle, a Rem 700, 22 250 that would not shoot to within 2 moa which was later confirmed by the Remington as having defect bore. But that is the exception, within 10 rounds after successful load development, my rifles are shooting "good".
Factors often ignored to account for less than desirable results when testing for accuracy are: the bench method used, shot sequence and resultant heating of barrel, environmental conditions, and skill of the shooter in testing. Perhaps the reason yesterday's groups were "good" and they were, is that you have mastered the above factors and has nothing to do with hitting the "600" round mark.
coldboreshot
Silver $$ Contributor
If I'm reading all this correctly, you had introduced too many variables during the course of these 600 rnds to narrow any cause. If you now have a load that is shooting well in that barrel, your on your way.
Clancy
Silver $$ Contributor
I shoot the first 10-20 rounds into the dirt and get a couple of cleanings. After that, I’ll do a seating depth test and expect to find something that shoots in the .1s or low .2s for 3 shots, then I test powder. I expect a 6mm or 22 to shoot 1/4” groups.
Something is wrong, maybe the load or maybe mechanical. The scope is a likely culprit. 3/4 is huge for a custom.
If you get that sorted out, try varget, RL15 or the old workhorse 4064.
Also, check your neck clearance. Brass is a lot fatter than it used to be, especially Nosler and Lapua.
Something is wrong, maybe the load or maybe mechanical. The scope is a likely culprit. 3/4 is huge for a custom.
If you get that sorted out, try varget, RL15 or the old workhorse 4064.
Also, check your neck clearance. Brass is a lot fatter than it used to be, especially Nosler and Lapua.
Coyotefurharvester
Silver $$ Contributor
Do you clean between powder brand changes? You running a mid range charge weight, have you made any adjustment with seating depth (every 200-300 rds)?
JSH
Gold $$ Contributor
Question reminds me of the old commercial on how many licks does it take to get to the center of a Totsipop.
There should be no “bad” barrels this day and age, seems a few slip through on occasion.
I am also of the thought that it should show some promise fairly quick.
I have rebarreled several rifles in the past few years with what some consider budget, along with what is considered premium go to companies. 17-6mm, I have yet to have a complaint or have a hard time finding accuracy.
I don’t start tinkering with bullet depth until numbers and groups are where I deem it worth chasing.
There should be no “bad” barrels this day and age, seems a few slip through on occasion.
I am also of the thought that it should show some promise fairly quick.
I have rebarreled several rifles in the past few years with what some consider budget, along with what is considered premium go to companies. 17-6mm, I have yet to have a complaint or have a hard time finding accuracy.
I don’t start tinkering with bullet depth until numbers and groups are where I deem it worth chasing.
Ned Ludd
Silver $$ Contributor
If I'm understanding you correctly, you used a load tuned in a different barrel and expected it to shoot the same in the current Lilja barrel? That may be part of the problem. Even barrels that are identical according to their specs and cut/chambered with the same reamer at the same time don't always behave exactly the same. Tune the load to the specific rifle/barrel.
Having said that, barrels can take a certain amount of time to "lap in". In my hands, Bartlein 5R barrels "speed up" pretty consistently between about 150 and 200 fired rounds. However, that is velocity, not precision. Those barrels can shoot tiny straight out of the gate, as long as the load is developed properly. Without much information to go on, it sounds as though what you might be experiencing is the barrel tuning in to the load. By that I mean that the rifle has reached a point at approximately 600 fired rounds where some parameter of the load has become optimal for the barrel, where earlier in its life that load parameter was not optimal. The obvious parameter that comes to mind is seating depth. Is it possible you have simply eroded the lands to where the load seating depth is now optimal, but before it wasn't?
Having said that, barrels can take a certain amount of time to "lap in". In my hands, Bartlein 5R barrels "speed up" pretty consistently between about 150 and 200 fired rounds. However, that is velocity, not precision. Those barrels can shoot tiny straight out of the gate, as long as the load is developed properly. Without much information to go on, it sounds as though what you might be experiencing is the barrel tuning in to the load. By that I mean that the rifle has reached a point at approximately 600 fired rounds where some parameter of the load has become optimal for the barrel, where earlier in its life that load parameter was not optimal. The obvious parameter that comes to mind is seating depth. Is it possible you have simply eroded the lands to where the load seating depth is now optimal, but before it wasn't?
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RegionRat
Gold $$ Contributor
All of the above advice, plus I will add some food for thought as you go along.
If you care about accuracy and precision in your shooting, it is time to keep note of the climate when you shoot.
Tune is affected by many things in all the advice above, but also by the weather when you shoot. In addition the the wind, watch your temperature, humidity, and pressure. When shooting pre loaded ammo, you are affected in terms of both internal and external ballistics.
If you care about accuracy and precision in your shooting, it is time to keep note of the climate when you shoot.
Tune is affected by many things in all the advice above, but also by the weather when you shoot. In addition the the wind, watch your temperature, humidity, and pressure. When shooting pre loaded ammo, you are affected in terms of both internal and external ballistics.
searcher
Gold $$ Contributor
While some barrels will shoot a given load just as well as a prior barrel shooting the same load, it seldom has the same accuracy "window" as another barrel. You might have, say, a 120 FPS accuracy window in one barrel, yet another barrel may show that load to only shoot well within a 50 fps window - or not at all - at least to provide the desired velocity. I'd guess that it wasn't the 600 rounds fired that brought the accuracy - but rather a subtle change in something you did while loading the recent loading of the same load (such as shoulders blowing forward a bit more to fill the chamber)- or other external factors were at play such as temperature or humidity that brought your rifle into a better tune. That said - if there were burrs imbedded in the chamber or barrel, it is possible it took 600 rounds to get it ironed out or removed when cleaning. Most custom barrels would shoot at their best after far less than a hundred rounds fired. But because it almost always takes some tweaking to get the rifle in tune (or a change in powder, etc.), that accuracy is usually not recognized till after some loads have been tried.
I do a ladder test, dropping powder a few grains and shoot 5-shot groups over the chrono, increasing powder no more than 2/10th grain each time, increasing to within 3/4 of a grain of the highest velocity you would want to shoot at. I stop there only because you will see whether your rifle was shooting in tune by that point. If it is not - there is no reason to go further. If you are shooting in pretty calm conditions, you will see where your accuracy window starts and ends. Could be you were either at the bottom or the very top of the window previously - and a slight change brought you into tune. I'm guessing you probably already do all or some of this - but thought I'd throw that out there. I also never trust one range session to arrive at my final load - as I'm not good enough to adjust for wind and say they all went where they were supposed to go with absolute certainty. Could be the load was shooting better than you thought on earlier sessions as well. Good luck.
ImBIllT
Silver $$ Contributor
I have a 6.5mm wildcat that I built with a Krieger barrel that shot about .5-.7MOA for around 600 rounds and finally gave up on it. Some seating depths and powder charges seemed to outperform the rest, but even the “best” loads were poor, despite the fact that they were quite a bit better than other loads. I was quite disappointed in the rifle, and had tried everything I knew to try. I drew an antelope tag and pre-loaded some ammo just to see which of two bullets I wanted to use, and then zero the scope. Every group I shot that day was under 1/4 MOA and one bullet (of which I only loaded six shots) shot a group in the teens at 100yds, followed immediately by a group in the zeros at 200yds. It now shoots better than any rifle I’ve ever owned. I have no idea what happened. I wish I had an explanation.
TAJ45
Silver $$ Contributor
If you toss out the best and worst group in your mentioned test, what did you agg? Something to ponder.
If the same bolt for the last bbl or two or 3, have you changed out the firing pin spring? I know that would have the "suddenness " factor to neutralize that cause but....then this last range session.......see first sentence.
I'll be curious as to the final fix.
If the same bolt for the last bbl or two or 3, have you changed out the firing pin spring? I know that would have the "suddenness " factor to neutralize that cause but....then this last range session.......see first sentence.
I'll be curious as to the final fix.
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