How many rounds for barrel break-in?

[Bluto65]

I know I know, some answers are go shoot a match.

But is there any common, off the cuff rules for break-in
as far as how many rounds does it take?

 

[jonbearman]

I shoot one , clean one 10 times and then shoot 3 then clean till I hit about 20 rounds total, all the while taking into consideration not to overheat the barrel and I start shooting 5 shot groups and cleaning after 3 five shot groups.

 

[ShootDots]

The last few barrels I got "quit coppering up" within 3 rounds. However, most barrels will "speed up" for the first 100 to 150 rounds making load development difficult. So, I get it to quit coppering up, go shoot a match, clean it to the metal again, foul the barrel up somewhat (5+ rounds) and start load development in earnest..

 

[skiutah02]

Both of the above are great advice. Seen the velocity increase as Dots mentions. Personally, this is how I've done it, and quite similar to jonbearman.

Shoot 1 round 10x, basic patch clean with CLR between shots for 10 shots
Shoot 2 rounds 5x and clean between 2 shot groups as above for 20 total
Shoot 3 rounds 3x clean as above.

Shoot group of 5 2x and clean as I would between matches (CLR and Cu+2 remover). Then foul and start load development if all looks well (esp. copper fouling of last 5 shots)

During this time (1st 30-40 shots) I might be sighting in scope, checking for pressure signs on brass/FF and usually getting MV readings with magnetospeed to get an idea of where to start load development.

One thing that I have done during break-in is to use factory ammo for the first few shots in case rifle is not correct from factory (factory rifle), gunsmithing is not correct or I screwed something up if I put on barrel. This way someone cannot blame my reloading for an accident at the beginning or I get a quick indicator if something is amiss. Probably thinking about it too much, but that's what I do.

Drew

 

[Bluto65]

Thanks for your advice/opinions. I have approx. 110 rounds thru my
7mm load dev and a short match. Last time I cleaned it [clean clean] it did not show any copper at all from the start. I did a bit more load development to make sure the groups were repeatable. It took 12 rounds to start getting very repeatable groups. I am wondering if
it likes to shoot dirty or if my HEAVY barrel has to heat up before it
starts shooting at match levels. Any opinions??

 

[LawrenceHanson]

It’s important to differentiate between mass produced factory barrels and custom hand lapped barrels. There is a world of difference between the two in terms of surface finish and dimensional uniformity of the bores. A custom barrel does not necessarily benefit from breaking in and a factory barrel may never break in. You need to specify what type of barrel you are referring to or you will receive widely differing responses that will be of little help to you, or may actually lead you in the wrong direction.

It’s also important to clearly establish your objective for breaking in a barrel, or determine what it is that you expect to accomplish by breaking in a barrel. Improved accuracy? Less fouling? Easier to clean? All of these things? Something else entirely? Barrel break in means different things to different people. Unless you state what it is you are attempting to do you are likely to receive a confusing assortment of answers.

Finally, barrel characteristics don’t immediately change from bad to good after a certain number of firing/cleaning cycles. It’s not as if a magical transformation suddenly occurs between shot number 10 and shot number 11. Improvements tend to happen gradually and subtly, if they happen at all.

 

[ShootDots]

Thanks for your advice/opinions. I have approx. 110 rounds thru my
7mm load dev and a short match. Last time I cleaned it [clean clean] it did not show any copper at all from the start. I did a bit more load development to make sure the groups were repeatable. It took 12 rounds to start getting very repeatable groups. I am wondering if
it likes to shoot dirty or if my HEAVY barrel has to heat up before it
starts shooting at match levels. Any opinions??

I have found that a "fouled out" barrel, as in "after the first F-Open match going to the second match", 1 to 2 shots and you will be back in business. I have found that even with 100 rounds down the bore after a "3 match day", accuracy is still maintained enough to shoot plenty of "X's".. However, I clean after the 100 rounds and clean it well, getting the hard carbon out.

 

[bsumoba]

most of my rifles started to shoot sub-1/2" groups around 10 rounds. this is with a bartlein barrel.

I did the following:

Clean new barrel
1 shot, then clean
3 shots, then clean
3 shots, then clean
3 shots, then clean (typically on this group, it is starting to tighten up).

 

[Erik Cortina]

But is there any common, off the cuff rules for break-in
as far as how many rounds does it take?

No.

 

[artbosco]

I know I know, some answers are go shoot a match.

But is there any common, off the cuff rules for break-in
as far as how many rounds does it take?

You'll hear as how-many-rounds-it-takes rules as there are responders to your inquiry and different ones from barrel manufactures. Pick one that suits you and stick with it if it sounds reasonable and isn't a laborious and boring procedure. Mine is: Clean, Shoot 10, Clean, Shoot 15, Clean, Done.

Consider this too: by Gale McMillan, A dissenting Opinion
"The break in fad was started by a fellow I helped get started in the barrel business . He started putting a set of break in instructions in ever barrel he shipped. One came into the shop to be installed and I read it and the next time I saw him I asked him What was with this break in crap?. His answer was Mac, My share of the market is about 700 barrels a year. I cater to the target crowd and they shoot a barrel about 3000 rounds before they change it. If each one uses up 100 rounds of each barrel breaking it in you can figure out how many more barrels I will get to make each year. If you will stop and think that the barrel doesn't know whether you are cleaning it every shot or every 5 shots and if you are removing all foreign material that has been deposited in it since the last time you cleaned it what more can you do? When I ship a barrel I send a recommendation with it that you clean it ever chance you get with a brass brush pushed through it at least 12 times with a good solvent and followed by two and only 2 soft patches. This means if you are a bench rest shooter you clean ever 7 or 8 rounds . If you are a high power shooter you clean it when you come off the line after 20 rounds. If you follow the fad of cleaning every shot for X amount and every 2 shots for X amount and so on the only thing you are accomplishing is shortening the life of the barrel by the amount of rounds you shot during this process. I always say Monkey see Monkey do, now I will wait on the flames but before you write them, Please include what you think is happening inside your barrel during break in that is worth the expense and time you are spending during break in"

 

[Scott Harris]

It’s important to differentiate between mass produced factory barrels and custom hand lapped barrels. There is a world of difference between the two in terms of surface finish of the bores. A custom barrel does not necessarily benefit from breaking in and a factory barrel may never break in. You need to specify what type of barrel you are referring to or you will receive widely differing responses that will be of little help to you, or may actually lead you in the wrong direction.

It’s also important to clearly establish your objective for breaking in a barrel, or determine what it is that you expect to accomplish by breaking in a barrel. Improved accuracy? Less fouling? Easier to clean? All of these things? Something else entirely? Unless you state what it is you are attempting to do you are likely to receive a confusing assortment of answers.

Finally, barrel characteristics don’t immediately change from bad to good after a certain number of firing/cleaning cycles. It’s not as if a magical transformation suddenly occurs between shot number 10 and shot number 11. Improvements tend to happen gradually and subtly, if they happen at all.

What he said...

Bartlein, Krieger, and other top barrels have been carefully hand-lapped to remove surface imperfections. In my experience, brand-new barrels exhibit virtually no copper fouling for the first few hundred rounds. You are simply wasting barrel life trying to "break-in" these top notch barrels. It's the USED barrels that need "breaking-in" As the barrel wears, the bore gets rough and produces increased copper fouling. Polishing with IOSSO can help to improve this situation.

 

[Rtheurer]

I have found that just like Shoot Dots said, Every barrel I have shot in the last few years has increased in velocity right between 100 and 200 rounds on the barrel. I try not to get to carried away with my load development until that has happened. Just this last two weeks I have been working on a brand new 260Rem/Shilen barrel. It increased 75fps right at 100 to 120 rounds down the barrel. Had to back off the powder charge that I found a good node at and looks like it has stabilized now. I should have maybe broke in this barrel as it was cheaper non lapped tube. For the High end Krieger, Hart, Bartlein, Broughton ect ect I stopped doing it. Those folks spend lots and lots of time lapping them for me. Fouling is very very little so far that I have found right from the start. Just my opinioin and not worth a whole lot.

Funny how this stuff is like that sometimes.

RT

 

[comagutsa]

i just did my kreiger and it only took 9 rounds to stop coppering up
1 shot , clean
2 shots , clean
3 shots , clean (only a small amount by now)
did another 3 rounds , clean and no copper at all
did 15 rounds, clean no copper

then did a 500m fly shoot about 40 rounds and cleaned and no copper at all ..happy as ;D, tried to load test all that time but conditions were crap the whole time

 

[JimT]

I always am entertained by barrel break-in threads. When a response starts out something like this: "my barrel is hand lapped so there is no need to break it in" I know that person has no clue why some of us break-in our custom barrels. Accordingly, I always like to make everyone aware of the discussion at the link below:

http://www.kriegerbarrels.com/Break_In__Cleaning-c1246-wp2558.htm

I think this explanation provided by the folks at Krieger Barrels gives the most complete and compelling reason for breaking in a barrel. It makes sense to me.

 

[Erik Cortina]

I always am entertained by barrel break-in threads. When a response starts out something like this: "my barrel is hand lapped so there is no need to break it in" I know that person has no clue why some of us break-in our custom barrels. Accordingly, I always like to make everyone aware of the discussion at the link below:

http://www.kriegerbarrels.com/Break_In__Cleaning-c1246-wp2558.htm

I think this explanation provided by the folks at Krieger Barrels gives the most complete and compelling reason for breaking in a barrel. It makes sense to me.

I knew that, but if you know that, you can deal with it before putting a single bullet down the bore. Bottom line is that there are burrs left in the throat by the reamer, so simply deburr the throat and move on.


I follow German Salazar's barrel break in procedure step by step.
http://riflemansjournal.blogspot.com/2010/11/equipment-barrel-break-in.html

 

[Rtheurer]

I always am entertained by barrel break-in threads. When a response starts out something like this: "my barrel is hand lapped so there is no need to break it in" I know that person has no clue why some of us break-in our custom barrels. Accordingly, I always like to make everyone aware of the discussion at the link below:

http://www.kriegerbarrels.com/Break_In__Cleaning-c1246-wp2558.htm

I think this explanation provided by the folks at Krieger Barrels gives the most complete and compelling reason for breaking in a barrel. It makes sense to me.

Guess my multi National Record process of barrel "break in" is clueless.. Ha! How many National Records do you hold Jim T? Do you represent the USA in International National Competition? Just sayin.
Best of luck to you sir.
Russ T

 

[JimT]

I always am entertained by barrel break-in threads. When a response starts out something like this: "my barrel is hand lapped so there is no need to break it in" I know that person has no clue why some of us break-in our custom barrels. Accordingly, I always like to make everyone aware of the discussion at the link below:

http://www.kriegerbarrels.com/Break_In__Cleaning-c1246-wp2558.htm

I think this explanation provided by the folks at Krieger Barrels gives the most complete and compelling reason for breaking in a barrel. It makes sense to me.

Guess my multi National Record process of barrel "break in" is clueless.. Ha! How many National Records do you hold Jim T? Do you represent the USA in International National Competition? Just sayin.
Best of luck to you sir.
Russ T

Congratulations on your national records Mr. Theuer. However, those do not change the fact that you not breaking in barrels has nothing to do with the reason John Krieger feels you need to. Again, the fact that a custom barrel is hand lapped does not preclude the need to break it in (that assumes you believe in breaking in a barrel in the first place which your post seems to accept). For an article that comes from a person more attuned to competitive shooting I direct you to the break in article at the following link:

http://www.davidtubb.com/

You will note that the reason given for breaking in a barrel is similar to Krieger's. Of course, the method might be different, and more lucrative for David, but the theory remains the same.

Recently, I broke in a Brux barrel chambered by a nationally known gunsmith in .280 Ackley Improved. During the first 5-7 rounds (cleaning after each shot) the amount of copper removed was significant. From rounds 7-10 the patches came out progressively cleaner. At round 11 I shot a 3 shot group and the barrel cleaned up in no time. Following this with a 5 shot group showed minimal copper fouling. Clearly something beneficial was taking place during this process.

I see no downside to expending a little time shooting 18 rounds and following the advice of John Krieger and David Tubb, as well as other reputable barrel makers and gunsmiths. Of course, Cortina, Salazar and you are completely entitled to your opinion with respect to this matter.

I learned long ago that my best decisions are made when I carefully consider all points of view with regard to a question or issue and making my decision based on the facts and the most compelling argument.

 

[Rtheurer]

You are entitled to your opinion, just as I am. So when you say folks like myself and other top shooters in the nation choose not to do barrel "break in" are CLUELESS... thats a slap in the face my friend. Thanks for the insult.

I have a lot more respect for Mr Krieger... David Tubb can go pack sand. I have beat him many times with my non Broke in barrels. Usually im a lot more humble than this, but you have really insulted me and got my blood pressure up.

This will be my last post on this topic.

Russ T

 

[michaelnel]

David Tubb can go pack sand.

Wait! Isn't that the "Heavy Sand" thread?

 

[artbosco]

I always am entertained by barrel break-in threads. When a response starts out something like this: "my barrel is hand lapped so there is no need to break it in" I know that person has no clue why some of us break-in our custom barrels. Accordingly, I always like to make everyone aware of the discussion at the link below:

http://www.kriegerbarrels.com/Break_In__Cleaning-c1246-wp2558.htm

I think this explanation provided by the folks at Krieger Barrels gives the most complete and compelling reason for breaking in a barrel. It makes sense to me.

I knew that, but if you know that, you can deal with it before putting a single bullet down the bore. Bottom line is that there are burrs left in the throat by the reamer, so simply deburr the throat and move on.


I follow German Salazar's barrel break in procedure step by step.
http://riflemansjournal.blogspot.com/2010/11/equipment-barrel-break-in.html

I keep coming up with a BLANK page. Where did the Article go?