How many relaods with 223 brass?

[searcher]

17 grains of powder to make them last that long??? Ha!

 

[chkunz]

Thanks to all, some really great information, I will try to go back and respond to some of the replies.

But let me ask again about safety, at what point do loose primers, loose not falling out, become unsafe and how do I avoid an unsafe condition? I do not really care as much about how many firings I get as I do about safety. Also, I do not want to throw good, usable brass away.

 

[chkunz]

Also, I am shooting an AR match rifle. The parts are quality parts but it is an AR and not a bolt gun. But either way, the question is still the same, at what point do loose primers become unsafe and how do I avoid getting into an unsafe situation with reloads and loose primer pockets.

 

[Jdne5b]

Eventually the gas will seep around the primer and cut your bolt face. Or the primer wont stay in the pocket long enough to make it into battery.

 

[nicholst55]

Eventually the gas will seep around the primer and cut your bolt face. Or the primer wont stay in the pocket long enough to make it into battery.

Or the primers will fall out during extraction and ejection, and get jammed under the trigger.

 

[Bart B.]

... at what point do loose primers become unsafe and how do I avoid getting into an unsafe situation with reloads and loose primer pockets.

1. If a production lot of primers seat with noticeable less force compared to what they did the cases when new, toss the cases and a few percent of your powder charge weight. Start over.

2. Don't be obsessed with highest possible velocities. What is that extra XXX fps really worth?

 

[chkunz]

1. If a production lot of primers seat with noticeable less force compared to what they did the cases when new, toss the cases and a few percent of your powder charge weight H380. Start over.

2. Don't be obsessed with highest possible velocities. What is that extra XXX fps really worth?

Thanks for the reply.

I understand "If a production lot of primers seat with noticeable less force compared to what they did [when the] cases were new, toss the cases", but do not understand "and a few percent of your powder charge weight H380" since I am not using that powder.

Also I am not obsessed with higher velocities since I am not using max or near max powder weights.

I am trying to determine when it is no longer safe to reload cases that show primers seating with less force than with the new cases.

 

[Bart B.]

but do not understand "and a few percent of your powder charge weight H380"

Thanks for pointing out a typo. I fixed that by sweeping "H380" under the rug. No idea how that happened.

I am trying to determine when it is no longer safe to reload cases that show primers seating with less force than with the new cases.

I would toss the cases that let primers seat with less force. How close to the edge of the road do you drive your car?

 

[jepp2]

I am trying to determine when it is no longer safe to reload cases that show primers seating with less force than with the new cases.

If you are using Remington primers, this can happen when the primer pockets are loose (never had it happen with any other brand primer).

 

[chkunz]

The number of firings you get will be directly related to the pressure of your loads, which we have no way of knowing without a little more information. In the .223 Rem, shooting heavies (i.e. 80 gr or more) in medium to hot loads can wreck primer pockets pretty quickly (i.e. 1 to 2 firings). Don't guess, get yourself one of these:

Ballistic Tools "Swage Gage" Small Primer Pocket Gauge
//www.brownells.com/reloading/measuring-tools/case-gauges-headspace-tools/small-primer-pocket-swage-gauge-sku100015613-71030-150244.aspx?cm_mmc=cse-_-Itwine-_-shopzilla-_-100-015-613&utm_medium=cse&utm_source=connexity&utm_campaign=itwine&utm_content=100-015-613

Use it to check your primer pockets after cleaning/annealing. If the pin gauge goes in, the case is done, and you don't waste any more time with it. You won't regret having this tool in your kit.

Great reply, thanks. You reminded me that I actually have one of these gages but had never used it. So I tried it as you recommended. The no-go gage will go into the primer pocket on about one out of every 100 cases and those cases will not hold a primer. Of the remaining cases about one in ten feel loose when I seat a primer but they function ok so far. Anyway, this is definitely the last loading for these cases, this is my first experience with loose primer pockets.

 

[chkunz]

I use the swage guage also, but usually feel for loose primers as I seat them. IMO, as long as the primer does not fall out it is useable.

Thanks for the reply. I will use this brass for practice and not take it thru another cycle. I now have a "feel" for determining when to scrap brass with loose pockets. Thanks again.

 

[chkunz]

For me, if the primers seats real easy...I chuck the case. especially .223 brass.

Thanks for the reply, that is my plan going forward.

 

[chkunz]

I use Remington brass for a couple 20Ps, a .223 AR and a .17 Fireball. It all seems to give up the primer pocket ghost quicker than other brands. I have the fireball brass go after one load. Only consolation is brass is now at $1.75 a pound.

Thanks for the reply, most of my experience is with 308 in the M14 and it does not make it far enough to get loose primer pockets so this is something new for me with the 223. Thanks again.

 

[chkunz]

I use the swage gauge too, take the guess work out of it

Thanks for your reply, I now will know how and when to use the tool, good tool to have.

 

[chkunz]

My experience is that the Remington brass is a bit soft and I usually get no more than 6 or loads, using loads that are not hot - and with lighter bullets than you are using. The combination of heavier bullets and those 400 primers will likely result in a few less loadings. Check for signs of case separation and if all is good - just the primer pockets giving a problem, you could find that you can extend the life of the brass by a loading just switching to a primer that requires more force to seat - such as a Tula or Wolf - but of course - that will change your load a bit. I switched over to using these full-time in most of my A/R's for this reason - and because they provide good accuracy. if you switch to Lake City (or any U.S. Military brass), you will find extended life over the commercial Remington brass as well.

Great info, thanks for the reply.

 

[chkunz]

I'm under the assumption (possibly incorrectly?) that his White Oak barrel is on an A/R. If you guys are getting 15 to 30 loadings on full-length resized brass in an A/R - I'm absolutely amazed.

You are correct, my application is with an AR and I would expect significantly different results in a bolt gun. Thanks for the reply.

 

[chkunz]

You just can't compare brass life of bolt guns with A/R's, with each having properly prepared ammo. I too have gotten over 30 to 40 loadings in bolt guns. I think most shooters would discard brass after the pockets get loose. Shooting anywhere near full-power loads with L/C brass - especially with 77's - and most guys will be replacing brass in about 6 to eight loadings - and much less if "full powered" loads. There will be variations in chambers, dies, etc. - but what chkunz is running into is perfectly the norm for Remington commercial brass, running full-powered - but not excessive loads - in my experience. I know a lot of guys will say "this brand of brass works great in my rifle - and therefor it is great". When not comparing it to something better - it is always great.

Good info, thanks for the reply.

 

[chkunz]

1. If a production lot of primers seat with noticeable less force compared to what they did the cases when new, toss the cases and a few percent of your powder charge weight. Start over.

2. Don't be obsessed with highest possible velocities. What is that extra XXX fps really worth?

Agree

 

[Dusty Stevens]

With an ar you will be better on your brass with a good fl die properly fit to size the base more. Itll keep the pockets tighter longer. Rcbs makes the AR line of dies to fit this line of thinking. According to powder speed and gas system design you could shorten case life significantly over just another load. Some loads unlock the bolt before the bullet is clear and thatll swell those bases and loosen pockets sooner

 

[Bart B.]

With an ar you will be better on your brass with a good fl die properly fit to size the base more. Itll keep the pockets tighter longer.

How does the case head that is not sized smaller by the shell holder squeeze primer pockets smaller?