How many firings on B box Lapua 223 brass?
- Thread starter grovey
- Start date
Dusty Stevens
Shiner
What rifle? What dies? Ive never found the end of life with mine but i have a proper chamber, in a bolt gun, with proper dies
With annealing, Redding Competition seater dies and either Lee collet neck or Redding Competition neck sizing bushing dies depending on which box of 100 I am using, upwards of 40 or so reloads with each 100. I do not use heavy charges. I never had one split, crack disintegrate or anything else bad happen without factoring in my own stupidity, i.e changing the seating depth on 10 or so cases at 4:00 a.m. without changing the sizing die out for the seating die first.
Jdne5b
Gold $$ Contributor
Your load is going to determine what you are getting.
Search for posts by @Ned Ludd @skiutah02 about their brass life. If you are using heavy loads, getting 1 or 2 lighter loads on the brass before going full power will lengthen life. Sometimes by quite a bit.
I'm using 95gr Sierras at 2750 in a very, very long throat. I'm at 5 or so firings, but I'm losing 10% or so each firing due to loose primer pockets as measured by a primer go/no-go gage. If I were to use this load on the first firing, I'd probably lose quite a bit of brass in one shot.
Search for posts by @Ned Ludd @skiutah02 about their brass life. If you are using heavy loads, getting 1 or 2 lighter loads on the brass before going full power will lengthen life. Sometimes by quite a bit.
I'm using 95gr Sierras at 2750 in a very, very long throat. I'm at 5 or so firings, but I'm losing 10% or so each firing due to loose primer pockets as measured by a primer go/no-go gage. If I were to use this load on the first firing, I'd probably lose quite a bit of brass in one shot.
I just lost 3 cases in my last match to split necks at 10-12 firings. I think it's because of overworking the brass. I've annealed them twice, with the last time being three firings ago. I'm shooting them in a factory bolt gun, and the necks are turned to a full clean up. I'm using a untouched Forster FL die with the expander. I originally wanted to have it honed to this brass and remove the expander, but... Between not really wanting to be confined to using brass turned for the die, and the fact that the thing makes super straight ammo... I left well enough alone.
I've been thinking of using unturned brass next year in this rifle and another to combat this. What's the chances of getting away with this with a factory chamber? I reckon I'd need a way to move the slop to the outside, but it seems to me that that's working the brass again. The only upside is the neck would be thicker to resist splitting. Worst case scenario I'll do it the way I have been, and I'll need more brass to get thru the yr
I've been thinking of using unturned brass next year in this rifle and another to combat this. What's the chances of getting away with this with a factory chamber? I reckon I'd need a way to move the slop to the outside, but it seems to me that that's working the brass again. The only upside is the neck would be thicker to resist splitting. Worst case scenario I'll do it the way I have been, and I'll need more brass to get thru the yr
Ned Ludd
Silver $$ Contributor
I also anneal every firing...I've yet to ever see a split neck. Like Jeremy stated above, the primer pockets are usually the first to go with relatively hot F-TR loads. I use Redding Type S Match dies with a 0.248" bushing for my .223s, and I completely remove the expander ball from all of them before use. This is for no-turn neck chambers, Lapua brass.
It sound in your case as though excessive primer pocket expansion is not the limiting step of the equation, as you're losing cases to split necks. I'd suggest that you test the following with a few cases: 1) anneal every firing - it may seem like a lot of extra effort, but I wouldn't be real happy about splitting case necks, so it's a trade-off. 2) remove the expander from your sizing die and see if the straightness remains satisfactory - I'd guess it might even get better, if anything. If so, let the appropriate bushing do the work of sizing the neck, it might be easier on the brass over its lifespan. It's also very easy to assess runout with a concentricity gauge. 3) finally, I'll also suggest that perhaps 10-12 firings is simply too many for that brass given what your subjecting it to under match firing conditions. If steps 1) and 2) above don't seem to help, I'd likely conclude that maybe 8-9 firings were going to be my max brass life and simply toss it when it reached that point. Yes, I know brass is fairly expensive. But as Jeremy alluded to above, myself and a few others are going through Lapua .223 brass in 2-3, maybe 4 firings, tops. I'd be pleased as punch to get even 8-9 firings with the loads I'm using. Splitting necks is really not worth worth an extra firing or two, IMO.
It sound in your case as though excessive primer pocket expansion is not the limiting step of the equation, as you're losing cases to split necks. I'd suggest that you test the following with a few cases: 1) anneal every firing - it may seem like a lot of extra effort, but I wouldn't be real happy about splitting case necks, so it's a trade-off. 2) remove the expander from your sizing die and see if the straightness remains satisfactory - I'd guess it might even get better, if anything. If so, let the appropriate bushing do the work of sizing the neck, it might be easier on the brass over its lifespan. It's also very easy to assess runout with a concentricity gauge. 3) finally, I'll also suggest that perhaps 10-12 firings is simply too many for that brass given what your subjecting it to under match firing conditions. If steps 1) and 2) above don't seem to help, I'd likely conclude that maybe 8-9 firings were going to be my max brass life and simply toss it when it reached that point. Yes, I know brass is fairly expensive. But as Jeremy alluded to above, myself and a few others are going through Lapua .223 brass in 2-3, maybe 4 firings, tops. I'd be pleased as punch to get even 8-9 firings with the loads I'm using. Splitting necks is really not worth worth an extra firing or two, IMO.
I'm on 13 firings with nearly no losses. Savage F-TR chamber (factory), RCBS FL sizing die, 80 SMK (seated long close to lands), 23 grains of Varget, 2850ish fps. I expect I'll stop before 15 firing, just because new brass is more appealing than problems. No annealing. Just size, STM, chamfer, load, and shoot.
Get a Lee collet die and you'll have no further problems.
Half the brass working of ordinary dies has to be good !
Don't believe all the BS that's been chucked around about LCD's, learn to use them properly and you'll be converted.
FYI, I've never annealed and never lost any 223 brass of any make.
Since you're somewhat anal about turning (and good on ya) skim brass true after a couple of firings then just load and shoot.
I get it, you're not interested in hearing about other brands. However I'll offer the following regarding 223 Rem cases of various brands. For me the rims wear out before the body / necks of the cases causing extraction issues in some of my bolt rifles, especially Rems. The Browning extractor system however is great and extracts without issue no many how many times reloaded.
Currently getting 16 reloads with a variety of brands. I retire after 16 reloads. All bolt rifles.
Currently getting 16 reloads with a variety of brands. I retire after 16 reloads. All bolt rifles.
So, it sounds like I did just ok in my situation then with some room for improvement. Maybe only skimming the necks next time around will net a few more firings. I'd rather not change my method much, as I feel I may find other quirks with those as well. I'm not leaning on this brass, but I ran some of the lot up to pressure in load development this spring. The primer pockets on these cases have felt "big" to me from the get go, so there isn't much love lost by tossing them. Certainly, I've gotten my money out of them compared to other components. That said I'm hoping to finish the last couple matches this yr with them.
eric n
Silver $$ Contributor
What does the neck on a fired case measure vs a sized case?
Just skimming isnt going to get you much. You need to reduce the amount you are sizing the neck.
I loose pp at 20+ with reasonable loads and 80s with a generous freebore. 3-5 with 90s. I’ve never seen a split neck.
Just skimming isnt going to get you much. You need to reduce the amount you are sizing the neck.
I loose pp at 20+ with reasonable loads and 80s with a generous freebore. 3-5 with 90s. I’ve never seen a split neck.
Last edited:
jepp2
Gold $$ Contributor
Those numbers are very typical for a factory chamber and a stock FL sizing die. With the approx 0.013" work per firing, you should be annealing about every 3'rd firing.
tmwinds
Gold $$ Contributor
In my opinion you should not have turned your necks. You seem to have a no turn chamber. You die is also sizing way to much. I'm guessing your rifle has a .253-.254 neck. I also think you are sizing your necks excessively. I would suggest unturned brass with the neck sized to .246-.247 with a loaded round of .248-.249. You should be able to get close to these numbers with unturned Lapua brass. You are working your brass excessively but if you anneal each firing you can probably extend the life of the brass.
On your next set of brass I would consider not turning the necks and getting a properly sized die or a bushing die. Good Luck.
On your next set of brass I would consider not turning the necks and getting a properly sized die or a bushing die. Good Luck.
I also use only Lee Collet Dies for the necks, and a Redding body die to bump shoulders, -.0015"
My reloads are on the mild side , full size every time with the standard RCBS FL sizing die to minimum headspace dimension . I dumped my cases after 25 reloads , l don't neck turn of add heat , I do use the expander ball , runout is .001 on the average , I use lube on the inside of the necks with a Q tip when sizing . My cases showed no signs of cracking , I feel cases can last , but just like a rifle barrel you can only expect it to shoot accurately for only so long . Now I shooting 3 lots of 30 cases and rotate every firing. I shoot 30 rounds at the bench each week . Before the 30 rounds lasted almost my shooting season . This year after the season I'll dump the 3 of 30 no matter what . It's not only how many reloads you get from cases , they have to shoot well . Can only expect so much from brass . Just like us , we can work longer but have to retire sometime , so do it now when things are good . Be Well
Chris
Chris
Upgrades & Donations
This Forum's expenses are primarily paid by member contributions. You can upgrade your Forum membership in seconds. Gold and Silver members get unlimited FREE classifieds for one year. Gold members can upload custom avatars.
Click Upgrade Membership Button ABOVE to get Gold or Silver Status.
You can also donate any amount, large or small, with the button below. Include your Forum Name in the PayPal Notes field.
To DONATE by CHECK, or make a recurring donation, CLICK HERE to learn how.
Click Upgrade Membership Button ABOVE to get Gold or Silver Status.
You can also donate any amount, large or small, with the button below. Include your Forum Name in the PayPal Notes field.
To DONATE by CHECK, or make a recurring donation, CLICK HERE to learn how.