How important are CCI 450's in the 6BR?

[Steave]

I'm about to start loading for the 6BR for the first time, it seems CCI 450's are the primer of choice, so that's what I'd like to start out with. As I don't have any I stopped by a couple of guns shops to pick some up, no luck, ran out to Bass Pro this afternoon, no dice on the 450's, but I did pick up some BR-4's. In my small rifle primer inventory I have Rem. 6.5 and 7.5, Win small rifle and now the BR-4's; I have generally used the Rem 7.5's for most of my small rifle needs.

Obviously it makes no sense to order 100, 200 primers just for testing due to that ridiculous and, IMO, unwarranted HazMat charge. I'm gonna try one other shop tomorrow, but if they don't have them I'm stuck for the time being and will try the BR-4's, which some seem to like. Of course, each rifle is different, but as a rule of thumb, am I handicapping myself by starting out with something other than 450's?

On the outside chance that anyone in Dallas reads this, does anyone know of a shop that I might want to try for the elusive CCI-450's?

Thanks!

 

[forsyth793]

I was torn with the same problem, no CCI 450's. So I tried some early Wolf small rifle magnum and was suprised at how low the SD & ES was. If I remember correctly the SD was 4 and the ES was 8. Now I am running low on the Wolf's and I don't know if the new Wolf/Tula are as good. Has anyone compared the CCI 450 with the Wolf???

 

[TerryPohl]

If you can find some Federal 205M's they have always worked fine for me. But as all loading components results may vary from gun to gun.
Terry Pohl

 

[navyrad8r]

forsyth793,
i have seen many threads, stating that wolf=Tula. th only difference is the color inside the anvil, and the cup itself. Email PVI in the forum for additional info. hope it helps, i shoot wolf too in my .260.
cheers,
doc

 

[JoeDuke]

In the Dallas area try

S & S Precision Rifles
2126 Hamilton Road, Suite 490
Argyle, TX 76226
940-566-7001

http://sandsprecisionrifles.com/index.cfm
Tell Stick that Joe Duke said Hi


joe

 

[cmillard]

brunoshooters and powder valley are just a phone call away. they have wolf srm primers in stock and they have good prices. buy about 10,000-50,000 of them and the hazmat fee won't hit you as hard!!

 

[North Fork]

Why don't you try the primers you have You have to break the barrel in they may work fine. in my 6 br i use the CCI BR4 in my dasher i use the cci mags.

 

[highlife]

pm sent,iam in the dallas area

 

[Steave]

Thanks, guys. I found some this afternoon, so I'm set.

Thanks again!

Steave

 

[RonAKA]

Be sure to report back as to how they compare to BR-4's which is what I use. Have not been convinced the 450's are necessary in the 6BR, but will be interested in what you find.

 

[6BRinNZ]

Hi,

I have just finished a ladder using CCI 450s. I initially started the ladder with CCI400s, and the top load was starting to show primer flow.

I repeated the ladder with the CCI 450s and I still haven't reached a load that showed pressure issues.

Below are the SD/ES results.

In terms of accuracy without measuring each group the 400s appear to be more consistent, having said that I shot my smallest group with the CCI450s...the final load in the test....for me I'm not sure I can shoot or load well enough to tell the difference.

The 450s are a safe bet for hot loads, apart from the very final load there was no cratering or flatening at all....I could easily keep going in the ladder but I imagine the brass would be starting to get a hiding and there appears to be very good accuracy around the 2990 fps.

....sorry I keep losing the formating when I save it...hopefully you get the gist though...attached text file looks better.

Jun-10 Load 105A-max 2594 lowest
Barnard 2208 28.5 2594
CCI 400 2625 highest
14.61354014 SD
31 ES

Load 105A-max 2640 lowest
2208 29 2650
CCI 400 2661 highest
8.576453554 SD
21 ES

Load 105A-max 2666 lowest
2208 29.5 2688
CCI 400 2699 highest
13.71941042 SD
33 ES

Load 105A-max 2694 lowest
2208 30 2695
CCI 400 2704 highest
4.496912521 SD
10 ES

Load 105A-max 2731 lowest
2208 30.5 2743
CCI 400 2754 highest
9.392668536 SD
23 ES

Load 105A-max 2789 lowest
2208 31 2795
CCI 400 2801 highest
4.898979486 SD
12 ES

Load 105A-max 2861 lowest
2208 31.5 2861
CCI 400 2879 highest
8.485281374 SD
18 ES

Load 105A-max 2861 lowest
2208 32 2873
CCI 400 2898 highest
15.41283736 SD
37 ES

Load 105A-max 2945 lowest
2208 32.5 2956
CCI 400 2965 highest
8.178562764 SD
20 ES

Oct-10 Load 105A-max 2836 lowest
2208 31.2 2836
CCI450 2849 highest
6.12825877 SD
13 ES

105A-max 2855 lowest
2208 31.4 2867
CCI450 2886 highest
12.76279315 SD
31 ES

105A-max 2898 lowest
2208 31.6 2898
CCI450 2904 highest
2.828427125 SD
6 ES

105A-max 2898 lowest
2208 31.8 2892
CCI450 2911 highest
7.930251502 SD
13 ES

105A-max 2923 lowest
2208 32 2943
CCI450 2943 highest
9.428090416 SD
20 ES

105A-max 2943 lowest * FPS is incorrect
2208 32.2 2943
CCI450 2943 highest
0 SD
0 ES

105A-max 2956 lowest
2208 32.4 2961
CCI450 2976 highest
8.498365856 SD
20 ES

105A-max 2976 lowest
2208 32.6 2989
CCI450 2996 highest
8.286535263 SD
20 ES

 

[TheBlueEyedBear]

WOW!! I agree with Rich: Sounds like that load might be more appropriate for a DASHER or BRX.
IMHO

 

[6BRinNZ]

Hi,

hmm, the quickload data is interesting....yes it is a 6BR, I don't have the gear to measure case expansion at the base, I typically go off primer look...having said that until now I have only ever shot factory rifles, whereas this is a Barnard action....but honestly there wasn't even much flatening of the primer which I would expect at that pressure.

The other reason I went to this load is the other shooter I go varminting with is using the same barrel, twist, brass and projectile and has a load that he has used for a couple of years now...32.5 grns 2208....he is using a Panda action.

 

[dreever]

Sounds WAY hot to me too. Borrow or go someplace that has a good one inch digital micrometer. Measure a new piece of brass on the case head, then measure your once fired brass. Anything over .001 on the first firing is to hot. I'd bet you measure .003-.004 or more.
First visible signs would be shiny ejector marks if you have an ejector.

Danny

 

[6BRinNZ]

Thanks guys I will go and check it out, I have another node at 31.6 grns that I was going to look into as well...maybe too hot as well (?).

I did post my data in context of the original question, and both the cci 400 and cci 450 have handled similar pressures with a slight edge to the 450.... SD-ES to me the edge is negligible. Visually the groups overall look more consistent with the 400.

So for me with the results I have - I don't see an advantage to using a CCI450 primer, I may consider a 450 primer on an unbushed bolt face.

 

[dlong]

My cooper 6Br is diggin' 70 MK's with a 205M primer over N135.

 

[6BRinNZ]

Sounds WAY hot to me too. Borrow or go someplace that has a good one inch digital micrometer. Measure a new piece of brass on the case head, then measure your once fired brass. Anything over .001 on the first firing is to hot. I'd bet you measure .003-.004 or more.
First visible signs would be shiny ejector marks if you have an ejector.

Danny

...just finished measuring my brass, I get .469+ for new brass, once fired brass at 32.6 grns and 32.5 grns measures just under .470-....I'm not real good with measuring to the 4th digit...

IMHO it seems ok to me...certainly there were no other symptoms that would indicate it is so over pressure - is varget and 2208 exactly the same?

 

[dreever]

You said new= .469+ once fired 32.6 grains = just under .470. That equates to a negligble increase in case head expansion. Like I said, use a GOOD digital micrometer. Sounds like your trying to use a caliper, or trying to justify what we all consider an over pressure load for the 6BR.

Danny

 

[6BRinNZ]

hey Danny,

Justify - no..I am pretty sure it is what it is, negligible expansion.....what I will do is take the cases into my gun smith, as I mentioned in the previous post I don't profess to being great at measurement.

Thanks

 

[Ammohouse]

I'm about to start loading for my 6BR for the first time.
Only primers I have are Winchesters, I guess I'll see how they work before I buy something else.