How does measuring powder accurately translate to distance accuracy?

[JimSC]

in long range competition you know when you are loading them right when the 10 - 20 shot groups evolve from blob shapes to horizontal ribbons

 

[tred1956]

Not trying to hijack thread and will move if it is inappropriate. First let me say I KNOW NOTHING about long range shooting. However I am always interested in reading about others who do. Have really enjoyed this thread. Not trying to stir up anything, but just asking. Have any of you read about the research done in the Houston warehouse. While not long range It was in a totally controlled environment and while I don't know if it was all true or not I have no reason to doubt it and it was indeed an interesting read. I would love to hear the opinions of long range shooters on what Virgil King owner of the warehouse thought was most important in extreme accuracy. Here is a link to one of the articles I read:

http://precisionrifleblog.com/2013/...-warehouse-lessons-in-extreme-rifle-accuracy/

What say you?
Safe shooting
Doug

 

[coford]

I shoot MR and LR F-Class so all my shooting is 600 and beyond.

I sort my cases by weight and once sorted they stay together from the first firing to the last - no mixing
I point my bullets
I weigh my bullets and sort to within .15 grains (I have found bullets off by 2.5 grains)
I measure BTO and separate by .1
I weigh my primers and separate to within .03 ( I have found primers off by 1.0 grains)
I weigh my powder charges down to .02 grains

I do these things because I think it eliminates variables and it give me confidence in my loads
I believe I have seen a difference on the target and that is why I do it. It takes a little extra time but I think it is worth it.

I no longer trim meplats as I could not see a difference on target. I do not take the time to measure interior case volume with a liquid - mainly because I could not get the consistency I was looking for.

I do all this for ME - my confidence - and my piece of mind
I have been fairly successful doing it this way but I always try to keep an open mind to something better. FWIW

 

[hogpatrol]

I do the same thing only I use my lathe...…..

Collets or three jaw chuck? I tried a four jaw but had trouble indicating.

 

[retired]

this is very important...you have to BELIEVE in what YOU are doing
"I do all this for ME - my confidence - and my piece of mind"

I shoot MR and LR F-Class so all my shooting is 600 and beyond.

I sort my cases by weight and once sorted they stay together from the first firing to the last - no mixing
I point my bullets
I weigh my bullets and sort to within .15 grains (I have found bullets off by 2.5 grains)
I measure BTO and separate by .1
I weigh my primers and separate to within .03 ( I have found primers off by 1.0 grains)
I weigh my powder charges down to .02 grains

I do these things because I think it eliminates variables and it give me confidence in my loads
I believe I have seen a difference on the target and that is why I do it. It takes a little extra time but I think it is worth it.

I no longer trim meplats as I could not see a difference on target. I do not take the time to measure interior case volume with a liquid - mainly because I could not get the consistency I was looking for.

I do all this for ME - my confidence - and my piece of mind
I have been fairly successful doing it this way but I always try to keep an open mind to something better. FWIW

 

[alinwa]

I do the same thing only I use my lathe...…..

I'm with Steve...... the lathe does make it a lot easier.

In fact I set up my old Heavy 10 (dedicated collet machine) with 4-collet sets bored for VARget aand H4350. I'm gonna' have to make up a set of RL17 collets soon...

A LOT handier than dialing those kernels into the 4-jaw

 

[pirate ammo]

I'm with Steve...... the lathe does make it a lot easier.

In fact I set up my old Heavy 10 (dedicated collet machine) with 4-collet sets bored for VARget aand H4350. I'm gonna' have to make up a set of RL17 collets soon...

A LOT handier than dialing those kernels into the 4-jaw

chisel and hammer works for me,,those kernels are tuff sometime,,

 

[rwj]

With my gun I see about a 5 fps difference per .1 grain of powder. Each kernel of weighs about .02 on my gempro. Making each kernel worth about 1 fps. Now this varies slightly depending how close you are to a node.

Welcome to the forum! This was “sremell’s” first post...

 

[rwj]

Not trying to hijack thread and will move if it is inappropriate. First let me say I KNOW NOTHING about long range shooting. However I am always interested in reading about others who do. Have really enjoyed this thread. Not trying to stir up anything, but just asking. Have any of you read about the research done in the Houston warehouse. While not long range It was in a totally controlled environment and while I don't know if it was all true or not I have no reason to doubt it and it was indeed an interesting read. I would love to hear the opinions of long range shooters on what Virgil King owner of the warehouse thought was most important in extreme accuracy. Here is a link to one of the articles I read:

http://precisionrifleblog.com/2013/...-warehouse-lessons-in-extreme-rifle-accuracy/

What say you?
Safe shooting
Doug

Interesting article that I’d not read before, thanks for sharing. Seems like the warehouse shooters did what we all do - optimize results based on the conditions via minimizing/controlling variables. The reported results are spectacular, regretfully there doesn’t appear to be objective evidence to examine.

 

[Richard Coody]

Interesting article that I’d not read before, thanks for sharing. Seems like the warehouse shooters did what we all do - optimize results based on the conditions via minimizing/controlling variables. The reported results are spectacular, regretfully there doesn’t appear to be objective evidence to examine.

i think the ppc shooters took a lot of that information to heart. barrel length, twist rate, powders, bullets and seating depth. it just works in short range benchrest.

 

[bored184]

Thanks to all of you who posted responses, I will probably have more questions once I read over all the responses a couple of times.

 

[Bart B.]

Not trying to hijack thread and will move if it is inappropriate. First let me say I KNOW NOTHING about long range shooting. However I am always interested in reading about others who do. Have really enjoyed this thread. Not trying to stir up anything, but just asking. Have any of you read about the research done in the Houston warehouse. While not long range It was in a totally controlled environment and while I don't know if it was all true or not I have no reason to doubt it and it was indeed an interesting read. I would love to hear the opinions of long range shooters on what Virgil King owner of the warehouse thought was most important in extreme accuracy. Here is a link to one of the articles I read:

http://precisionrifleblog.com/2013/...-warehouse-lessons-in-extreme-rifle-accuracy/

What say you?

Now you know why match bullet makers test indoors where the air is more stable from shot to shot..

 

[Martin52]

With my gun I see about a 5 fps difference per .1 grain of powder. Each kernel of weighs about .02 on my gempro. Making each kernel worth about 1 fps. Now this varies slightly depending how close you are to a node.

Makes me think....I am loading 46.0 gr varget to 0.02gr for 0.308 155gr and can get up to 25 fps variance. Will have to recheck neck tension. Ladder test looks OK for waterline.

 

[HomeSlice]

i do not use a "weapon" for target shooting, i use a TARGET RIFLE.
in 50 plus years of TARGET shooting, i have never been attacked by a target.

It’s always a good idea to have a backup plan. For example, I shoot my rapids across the course with a bayonet attached. In the event that I have a malfunction and not enough ammo for an alibi, I can charge the target and stab at least a 9 with reasonable certainty. It is more difficult the older I get, however.

 

[sremmell]

Makes me think....I am loading 46.0 gr varget to 0.02gr for 0.308 155gr and can get up to 25 fps variance. Will have to recheck neck tension. Ladder test looks OK for waterline.

How are you setting neck tension?

 

[rwj]

How are you setting neck tension?

“Neck tension” is a term used in the hand loading community for the diametral fit between the bullet OD and case neck ID. Control is usually via sizing the case neck OD. Many would say that a round comprised of a case having a neck ID that is .001” less than the bullet OD has .001” of “neck tension.”

 

[sremmell]

“Neck tension” is a term used in the hand loading community for the diametral fit between the bullet OD and case neck ID. Control is usually via sizing the case neck OD. Many would say that a round comprised of a case having a neck ID that is .001” less than the bullet OD has .001” of “neck tension.”

“Neck tension” is a term used in the hand loading community for the diametral fit between the bullet OD and case neck ID. Control is usually via sizing the case neck OD. Many would say that a round comprised of a case having a neck ID that is .001” less than the bullet OD has .001” of “neck tension.”

Thanks for the info rwj . I set mine via a mandrel. I was more so asking martin how he sets his. Mandrel or bushing as he said he is going to look at it again. I run about .0015 on mine. Seems to get it done. Had a 41 round group with an SD if 5.6. Looking to better that this week with some tweaks

 

[Martin52]

How are you setting neck tension?

For a long time I used a Whidden custom FLS bushing die with no expander, the bushing was 0.334 for 0.308 Lapua cases turned to 0.0140, when loaded the necks measured 0.336 (so minimal n/t). Fired necks before sizing are 0.339. These produced up to 25 fps variance, the powder was measured to 0.02 on lab scale.

Recently removed the bushing and continued used the FLS die but to only set the headspace and started using expander mandrels. 2 step sizing down - 0.336 then 0.334 then back up with a 0.306 expander. Latest batch of new brass have necks turned slightly less at 0.0145. Loaded round about 0.3365

Have yet to run these mandrel sized rounds over the chrony.

The statement that 0.1 gr of powder can result in 5 fps change got me interested as my powder loads are to a single kernel.

Appreciate your comments 'in your gun'.



Martin

 

[BronzeArcher]

i do not use a "weapon" for target shooting, i use a TARGET RIFLE.
in 50 plus years of TARGET shooting, i have never been attacked by a target.

My targets are usually paper, occasionally living critters, sometime even carnivorous teeth with the ability to attack.

Rifles are ignorant of all this and just send bullets where their shooters point them. They know nothing of the intentions of the owner, and many work very well for purposes other than those their owners had in mind when originally acquiring them.

I never met a rifle that refused to take a shot at a coyote, deer, fox, or bear. Point and shoot, they all work the same.

 

[sremmell]

For a long time I used a Whidden custom FLS bushing die with no expander, the bushing was 0.334 for 0.308 Lapua cases turned to 0.0140, when loaded the necks measured 0.336 (so minimal n/t). Fired necks before sizing are 0.339. These produced up to 25 fps variance, the powder was measured to 0.02 on lab scale.

Recently removed the bushing and continued used the FLS die but to only set the headspace and started using expander mandrels. 2 step sizing down - 0.336 then 0.334 then back up with a 0.306 expander. Latest batch of new brass have necks turned slightly less at 0.0145. Loaded round about 0.3365

Have yet to run these mandrel sized rounds over the chrony.

The statement that 0.1 gr of powder can result in 5 fps change got me interested as my powder loads are to a single kernel.

Appreciate your comments 'in your gun'.



Martin

Pretty much the same process I’m loading by. I resize on a Forster fl die. Bump the shoulder about .0015 and then use a Sinclair mandrel to set neck tension. I turn my necks to about 90% clean up, which results in about a 13.5 neck thickness. I’m running alpha brass for 6.5 creedmoor.
There are a few other variables you can look at such as trying a different primer or powder. I’m runnging H4350 with 210m’s. Also look at your full ratio. Supposedly best sd and Es for a given loan can be achieved at 95% fill.
I’m very new to precision reloading but have done 300 blk ammo for years now. I read everything I can get my hands on. I’m always looking for a new approach to something to bring down sd and Es. My latest venture is sorting primers to .001 grams. I’m taking those loads out tomorrow to see if they actually shoot any better. Sorted about 400 primers and found a Es of .014 grams. I have a Labradar so it makes data collection much easier and quite fun.