How do you indicate a Savage to the threads for truing?

[Shawnba67]

I have read were some well respected Savage Smiths indicate to the action threads and then square everything to the threads. This all makes sense to me(pertaining to a Savage with a floating bolthead and interchangable barrels).
What I cant seem to figure out is how they go about indicating to the threads?
I have had several thoughts on how they might do it but found issues with them all.
Anyone know how the indicate to the factory threads?
I am just very curious. Been a free time ponderance for a bit know.
Thank you
Shawn

 

[boltfluter]

If in fact they do indicate/true to the threads, which is doubtful. I would make a threaded mandrel, complete with small cylinder section, in one set up to make sure everything is concentric. Double dial on cylinder section, and have at it.

Paul

 

[GenePoole]

+1 Paul.

I use something similar to check R700s. It's a 6 inch or so chunk of 4140PH turned true, threaded and parted in one op.

 

[Shawnba67]

If in fact they do indicate/true to the threads, which is doubtful. I would make a threaded mandrel, complete with small cylinder section, in one set up to make sure everything is concentric. Double dial on cylinder section, and have at it.
I had thought about that but I am as skeptical as you are on it being "true". The factory threads are surely crooked and tapered

Paul

 

[GenePoole]

That's a problem I have on R700's. Sometimes the threads are loose enough that the mandrel will wobble a couple of thousandths at the end. I always open up and true the threads anyway so it's not really a problem, but I like to have some numbers on how far they were out.

 

[Shawnba67]

I had wondered if the threaded mandrel butted up against something say tge bolt lug abuttment if that might force it to the center of the threads? Or at least close enough for govt work???

 

[BoydAllen]

A gunsmith that specializes in work on Savages, who has been to the factory, and seen how they are made, told me that on the standard, non target actions, that the threads are pretty good in relation to the lug seats but the facing of the actions is crudely done in a separate operation. Given this, he chucks up a piece and leaves it in the lathe through the whole process, threads a false tenon that is longer than the action threads. and squares the end so that the action can be turned on to the point that the square end seats firmly on the lug seats. Then he cuts the action face. making it square to the threads and parallel to the lug seats.

Some years back a friend had the action face of a 110 squared using a tight fitting mandrel that had been turned between centers. He then replaced the factory recoil lug with one that had been precision ground. With no other change, the rifle shot better.

 

[voltrok7]

I have been under the impression that the locking nut on a Savage is part of the "magic" in their inherent accuracy.
If using the locking nut, it is not much worth the effort of trueing, not much to be gained.
If using a shouldered tenon the trueing might become more valuable.
Please correct me if I am wrong, I am interested to know.
http://benchrest.com/newreply.php?s=58bb81f137045870f05e06dca7924540&do=newreply&p=465983

 

[Dusty Stevens]

2 reasons not to touch savage threads:

Pre fit barrels no longer fit

The floating bolt head design does not need truing

 

[Shawnba67]

2 reasons not to touch savage threads:

Pre fit barrels no longer fit

The floating bolt head design does not need truing

There has been no mention of touching threads. only squaring everything up to them, and mainly how they can possibly do it.

 

[Dusty Stevens]

There has been no mention of touching threads. only squaring everything up to them, and mainly how they can possibly do it.

Any truing/blueprinting will involve recutting the threads true to the bolt raceway

 

[Shawnba67]

Any truing/blueprinting will involve recutting the threads true to the bolt raceway

only if your truing to the bolt raceway, which as you stated is unnecessary on a savage. However having the lug abutments and action face all in line is never a bad thing.
Anyway would you have any idea how one could indicate into the threads on a savage to square up these surfaces to the threads?

 

[Dusty Stevens]

only if your truing to the bolt raceway, which as you stated is unnecessary on a savage. However having the lug abutments and action face all in line is never a bad thing.
Anyway would you have any idea how one could indicate into the threads on a savage to square up these surfaces to the threads?

I would grind a mandrel to indicate off the raceway then you could true the lugs, face and threads all in one setup or skip the threads if you like (i wouldnt). You gotta make sure the nut and lug are square too or its all for nothing

 

[Dusty Stevens]

What im saying is dont indicate off the threads- the raceway is the center of the universe. Make the threads and everything else concentric to the raceway

 

[Rstrick0352]

2 reasons not to touch savage threads:

Pre fit barrels no longer fit

The floating bolt head design does not need truing

Not to cause any friction here but
I’ve re-cut threads true to the bolt raceway using PTG piloted tools on several receivers without any issues using pre-fit barrels. I square the face and also the lug abutments with the same tool then chase the threads with a tool dedicated for that. After that I lap the lugs and then square the bolt face. No issues with any so far and they’re all very decent shooting rifles.

 

[Dusty Stevens]

Not to cause any friction here but
I’ve re-cut threads true to the bolt raceway using PTG piloted tools on several receivers without any issues using pre-fit barrels. I square the face and also the lug abutments with the same tool then chase the threads with a tool dedicated for that. After that I lap the lugs and then square the bolt face. No issues with any so far and they’re all very decent shooting rifles.

Yes sir that works if you dont have to go too far to straighten them up AND the prefit barrel isnt on the loose side. Theres not much thread height on a 20tpi to toy with

 

[geo.ulrich]

six to one half a dozen to another, as Dusty said working to centre line is best and threads would need recut to get all true. If you absolutely had to work off threads I would thread and turn a plug between centres to max. pitch dia. then slit threads to allow enough spring to thread in like a jo plug for jig bores. the issue is if threads are out more than a little to bore and faces are trued to threads and there isn't enough movement in bolt then lug abutments will actually be worse.

 

[Rich S]

A gunsmith that specializes in work on Savages, who has been to the factory, and seen how they are made, told me that on the standard, non target actions, that the threads are pretty good in relation to the lug seats but the facing of the actions is crudely done in a separate operation. Given this, he chucks up a piece and leaves it in the lathe through the whole process, threads a false tenon that is longer than the action threads. and squares the end so that the action can be turned on to the point that the square end seats firmly on the lug seats. Then he cuts the action face. making it square to the threads and parallel to the lug seats.

Some years back a friend had the action face of a 110 squared using a tight fitting mandrel that had been turned between centers. He then replaced the factory recoil lug with one that had been precision ground. With no other change, the rifle shot better.

Boyd
Good information. Did he give you any insight how the target actions are?

 

[BoydAllen]

Boyd
Good information. Did he give you any insight how the target actions are?

It has been a long time, but if memory serves I believe that he said that they are much better in that regard. I have a friend who squared up the face of a single shot 110, installed an aftermarket lug, and chambered a top grade Shilen barrel sans nut, with a custom tight neck .223 reamer. Sitting in a hand made, pillar bedded target/varmint stock, with the stock trigger worked over, it shot like a benchrest rifle. I would not build a competition rifle on a Savage action because of the trigger situation, but I do not run super light triggers on field rifles and for those applications, I see no reason not to use one.

 

[Will Henry]

I really think the whole "floating bolt head" thing borders on being a myth. Two Savages I have in the shop have bolt heads which fit so tightly in the bolt bodies that there is no float whatsoever. Regarding the barrel nut: the nut just provides another opportunity to produce a thread with a poor fit or a mating surface with partial contact. The real lesson to be learned is that maybe things just don't matter as much as we like to think. WH