How deep is too deep

[Fire306]

I am building a 7 WSM hunting rifle. The rifle is a Sako 75 GreyWolf SM action, and I wish ti rebarrel in in 7WSM and keep everything as close to factory as possible, basically so the end result is a factory Sako 7WSM.

I am using Norma 270 WSM brass, and am just playing around with dummy rounds while waiting for the build to take place.
My question is, how far (deep) can a bullet be seated down into the case before it causes any problems? (if any)
Is it simply a matter of giving up case volume, by seating the bullet way down into the case, or is there safety concerns.
I have become quite fond of using Barnes bullets, in particular the LRX's. If I was to use 168gr LRX bullets, seated deep enough to fit the magazine, the tail of the bullet is way down past the shoulder/body junction.

Thoughts??

 

[338 Mollett]

What ever the bullet you don't want the base of the shank seated below the neck shoulder junction.30 thou. clearance will do as the throat will wash out some.It is not complex and can be eye bald!

 

[Ringostar]

I've never measured and studied factory hunting loads. However they need to be short enough to fit mag length on various rifles. I think that lots of them might be seated deep if loaded with a boattail bullet vs Flatbased. You'll loose some case capacity, but are they really loaded to full capacity to begin with? If your loading your own, watch close for pressure signs and it shouldn't be a safety issue.

 

[Fire306]

Here's a couple of photos.
To me this looks like it would be much too deep. I will be okay with the 145gr LRX's but will go with something else, like possibly the Berger 168gr Hybrid Hunter bullets if I can find any in Canada.



The second photo makes it look worse than it actually is because of the angle, but its a close representation.

 

[Ringostar]

Great pics. This really helps to see your situation. The solids have more length to make weight vs lead core bullets. Barnes must list loading data for their bullets. Do they give COAL info?

 

[Fire306]

They don't list load data, that I could find at least, for the LRX's, but they do show their 175gr bullets. All of their listings show 2.800", I can run 2.930" in the factory Sako magazine.
A regular Berger Berger 168gr VLD is the same approx length of the 145gr Barnes LRX, so I'm sure they would all work just find. It's just the Solid Copper heavy Barnes that are so long. Just the nature of the Copper bullets, add weight means more length.
I was just unsure of safety issues with seating so deep.
Even a 160gr Nosler Accubond is shorter than the 145 LRX, so there's an option as well for larger game. I've used 160 Accubonds on moose before with good success.

 

[Dale700]

Just a thought , but building o custom gun to factory specs then squeezing custom bullets to factory is defeating the purpose . Maybe the investment in bottom metal would be in order . ?

 

[CaptainMal]

Guess I know little because both of those pictures scare me. Ignition looks like it would compress the bullet sides more than pushing the bullet out.

I throat so the bearing surface ends at the end of the case neck. To heck with short actions. If so, it's a single shot.

 

[LCazador]

I recently did this with the 284 Winchester and a zero freebore at the behest of a customer. Velocity dropped like a rock due to the reduced powder room and so did accuracy. When loaded in a long magazine, the 284 is a fantastic cartridge!

 

[barefooter56]

Fire306,
Many bullets produced today require that the shooter invest in having a longer aftermarket magazine box installed . This is due to some bullets having a longer than SAMMI spec nose (Berger Hybrids) or the total length of the bullet being too long (Berger VLDs) . This is especially true with the shorter cartridge cases like the 223 and 308 families and depending on the size of the stock magazine box , magnum cartridges.. These after market magazines are designed to work with LONG actions. Not short or short medium actions. Wyatts outdoor custom rifles , Brownells and Midway are just a few vendor's where you can find the longer mag boxes. If the tail of the bullet is compressing or very close to the powder column you will increase pressures. The longer mag boxes will allow you to seat the bullet farther out to solve this problem in most cases. Because the bullet is set out of the cartridge case further you may be able to work up to the velocity you need / rifle likes to get the accuracy and range you need. Most of the aftermarket mag boxes will give you and extra .110 in length. So far I have only seen these offered for Remington s and Winchesters. Lets hope the rifle manufacturers catch on and increase magazine box specs on factory rifles for the longer bullets soon.
Take care,
Phil Hoham
Berger Bullet Tech

 

[Fire306]

Thanks everyone for the replies.

Guess I know little because both of those pictures scare me. Ignition looks like it would compress the bullet sides more than pushing the bullet out.

I throat so the bearing surface ends at the end of the case neck. To heck with short actions. If so, it's a single shot.

This is why it scares me as well, I can see it like you say, squeezing the bullet more than pushing it out, which to me could produce scary pressures.

Barefooter56, thanks for the insight. This rifle will be strictly a hunting rifle. I have several Sako hunting rifles and love them all. I have always wanted a "Grey Wolf" and always wished Sako had built 7 WSM's, so this rifle is just a project of mine to built the Grey Wolf in the cartridge I wish they had built. I'm not looking for a super long range rig that I can squeeze everything out of. I have other rifles for that. Please don't take what I'm saying the wrong way, as I really appreciate the info you are giving me, I'm just putting this out there I just want basically a factory Sako 7WSM rifle, and am unlikely to go through the steps you are presenting to get the most from this rifle.

Most of the hunting I will do with this rifle will be deer hunting, and light (145gr-150gr) bullets will be perfect for that. As long as I can find a decent bullet combo for moose in the 160+gr bullets, I will be happy. After reading here, and with my own judgement, I have taken the 168 gr LRX's out of the equation.

I'm looking for some 168gr Berger Classic Hunters here in Canada, I think they should be a good fit for this cartridge.
Edit** I just realized in my previous post I referenced the Berger Hybrids, which you may have been also referring to, I originally meant the 168 Classic Hunter bullets.

 

[barefooter56]

Fire306,
The 168 grain CLASSIC HUNTER would be a great choice for your 7 WSM. This bullet is very easy to tune for and are designed to work in the factory magazine boxes. Use the "DEALER LOCATOR" function on the main page of our website to find dealers in your area. Thanks for using our bullets!
Take care,
Phil Hoham
Berger Bullet Tech

 

[kev77]

TNT Gunworks in Regina or RPS International will have the 168s your looking for in canada

 

[asauer]

I know nothing about Sakos, and I understand your desire to create a factory-like rifle, but why not scrap this idea and go with a long action? I think in the end you'll be much happier. I did this with my 300 wsm in a win 70 and I have gobs of space. Haven't experimented much, but appears to feed and function perfect through the factory internal magazine (was originally a 300 win mag).

 

[Fire306]

I know, ultimately that a long action build would be best, but I already have the donor rifle and everything ready to go for the build. It's a rifle I want to build and at this point will see it through.
I did find some Berger 168gr Classic Hunters, so whenever my gunsmith gets the 7WSM reamer, I will get started on the build.

 

[jonbearman]

If your smith has a reamer that doesn't have enough throat length , he can get a throater from PTG and throat it for any bullet you choose. It is called a uni throater.

 

[RossL]

Relax, seat to fit and feed from magazine and work up the load. Nothing weird will happen. The part of that solid copper bullet that is past the shoulder body junction will not deform and cause issues.

I have seated many bullets deep into the case over the last 35 yrs. You do what you need to do for your hunting rifle to function. Oh there may be some velocity loss but not much in many situations.

Here is what I consider extreme deep seating. It is a Browning A-bolt 22" barrel with BOSS with a 2.8" magazine chambered in 300 WSM. Seated the 230 gr berger match target hybrid to fit and feed from that short magazine. Used RL-17, which would be a good choice for your cartridge as well, and worked up to 2735 fps. It was quite accurate even though it had a significant jump to lands. Don used it to shoot his cow elk the year before last. Absolutely no problems.

 

[bheadboy]

to those of you concerned about the bullet being seated base below the neck/shoulder junction, have you ever heard of the 300win mag?

Bob

 

[stansrifles]

I noticed that you mentioned using 270wsm brass in your project I hope you understand there is about 45thousands difference in headspace between 270wsm an 7mmwsm.
Stan