How Accurate Are The Worlds Top PRS Shooters

[INTJ]

Is PRS "practical"? I don't think so, but it doesn't need to be. PRS is a shooting sport that requires specific skills, discipline, and practice. It doesn't need to be "practical" for anything else. The guys that do well in PRS work their butts off, just like those that do well in any shooting discipline.

While there is skill transfer in any shooting discipline, each has its own unique requirements. if you want to be a sniper you need to join the military and get specific training. If you want to be a better long range hunter, there is specific training for that as well.

For LRBR, you have to have a good rifle that tracks well, good rests, consistent gun handling, reasonable wind reading skills, and the big one--you have to know how to tune a load like nobody else. Tuning is what separates the men from the boys in LRBR.

Sure, you can put a rookie behind a well tuned LRBR rifle, show them the basics, and they can shoot decent groups in good conditions. However, that doesn't make them a LRBR shooter, as you have done the hardest part for them.

To really evaluate the difficulty of LRBR, you would give them the rifle and equipment, and then give them various bullets, brass, primers, and powder and tell them to find their own tune, load up their own ammo, and then shoot.

It is hard for people to get into LRBR and do well. There isn't an inexpensive way to start, and you don't get good until you pay your dues and learn how to tune. While we all hear a lot of how "BR is easy", we don't seem to get a lot of shooters from other disciplines to come shoot with us and stick with it.

I think the best attitude is to respect all shooting disciplines, pick which one you like best, work hard, and have fun.

 

[6MMsteve]

My buddy has good concentration and he can shoot, but he cares nothing about the accuracy things, he hunts but If I'm having an issue shooting a rifle I call him and let him shoot the rifle, he don't even use the rear bag he just shoots 3 shoots in a hole then looks at me...I start laughing and he smiles..and points at me

 

[Kracken McGraw]

My buddy has good concentration and he can shoot, but he cares nothing about the accuracy things, he hunts but If I'm having an issue shooting a rifle I call him and let him shoot the rifle, he don't even use the rear bag he just shoots 3 shoots in a hole then looks at me...I start laughing and he smiles..and points at me

The being a natural, Tom Brady deal is always a plus.

 

[jackieschmidt]

Is PRS "practical"? I don't think so, but it doesn't need to be. PRS is a shooting sport that requires specific skills, discipline, and practice. It doesn't need to be "practical" for anything else. The guys that do well in PRS work their butts off, just like those that do well in any shooting discipline.

While there is skill transfer in any shooting discipline, each has its own unique requirements. if you want to be a sniper you need to join the military and get specific training. If you want to be a better long range hunter, there is specific training for that as well.

For LRBR, you have to have a good rifle that tracks well, good rests, consistent gun handling, reasonable wind reading skills, and the big one--you have to know how to tune a load like nobody else. Tuning is what separates the men from the boys in LRBR.

Sure, you can put a rookie behind a well tuned LRBR rifle, show them the basics, and they can shoot decent groups in good conditions. However, that doesn't make them a LRBR shooter, as you have done the hardest part for them.

To really evaluate the difficulty of LRBR, you would give them the rifle and equipment, and then give them various bullets, brass, primers, and powder and tell them to find their own tune, load up their own ammo, and then shoot.

It is hard for people to get into LRBR and do well. There isn't an inexpensive way to start, and you don't get good until you pay your dues and learn how to tune. While we all hear a lot of how "BR is easy", we don't seem to get a lot of shooters from other disciplines to come shoot with us and stick with it.

I think the best attitude is to respect all shooting disciplines, pick which one you like best, work hard, and have fun.

A lot of shooters think Benchrest is “easy”.

And basically, it is. That is, untill you you actually want to be competitive in which ever Discipline you are shooting, be it Long Range or Short Range, Group or Score.

We have a thriving Club Match program at Tomball, where we shoot 100 and 200 yard Varmint for Score. Every now and then one of the F-Class or PRS competitors will show up, usually we put them in the “modified” class, not having to compete against dedicated 30BR Score Rifles.

The majority find it is not as easy as it looks. You would think that simply being able to hit a 1/2 inch 10 ring would not be that difficult. But the 7 minute time limit, the inability to read flags, and a few other things, like the real inherent accuracy of their combination, usually convinces them why we spend so much time at the range figuring out the finer points of the game.

But as I said before. I would look pretty silly attempting to navigate a full PRS course of fire. And it’s just not age. It is also knowing the finer points of how the game is played.

 

[Capt. Oblivious]

Im a belly shooter and I dont do to badly but went and did a PRS “fun” shoot over December. Man did I get my but spanked, obviously I didnt have the proper kit but still I dont think that would have helped me all that much. These guys can shoot, I did have a go at a 1200y with one of the top guys setup and went 5/5 so atleast I managed to hit something

 

[CA_Shooter]

This is my impression of PRS after shooting a few matches. Playing H-O-R-S-E with a rifle. H-O-R-S-E isnt as fun as basketball, and you'd end running into guys that would have trick shots just for H-O-R-S-E but they weren't so good at basketball.

To add: maybe it's my experience because in the few matches I've been to I've had to shoot my bolt action offhand and also have been told for a stage you have to sit in a very specific way - sitting cross legged, with both butt cheeks firmly planted.

 

[JFrank]

Well I don't know about that young feller. So what is your real experience that you can document to back that up?

RHovee is an accomplished 1000 yard Benchrest shooter, as well as a long range hunter and now shooting some PRS.

 

[rhovee]

Thanks SPJ. I was no means in the same league as some of the heavy hitters are Deep Creek. But I realized that in LRBR it was 90 percent load tuning. Everyone can buy the same equipment. But the amount of time necessary for the dedication of tuning wasn’t something I had. Hence why you see so many retired guys shooting it.

Now I have been shooting more NRL hunter and PRS comps. Too me, the challenge of reading the wind without flags or Sighters, getting ranges, finding targets. Reading impacts, condition changes. Is all making me a more well rounded shooter, and find it much more challenging then LRBR.

 

[mauser284]

I believe the top PRS shooters are the most well rounded shooters out of any shooting class.

Take a very well tuned BR rifle and put rookie shooter behind it. He can shoot some good groups.

Take a top prs shooters rifle and put it in a rookies hand. He isn’t going to do very well.

I disagree with this on many levels. PRS is not the pan ultimate demonstration of shooting skill. I am 50 years old and have had 3 ankle surgeries, a knee surgery, broke my back in 2 places and have a partially torn rotator cuff. I have had issues with breathing, heart and diabetes after having Covid-19 in March of 2020 that almost killed me. I can shoot F-Open and TR and hold my own. You know what I can't do? I can not run, jump, crouch or put my body into awkward positions. The fact that I am unable to run, jump, crouch, twist into awkward positions is not a reflection of my shooting skill. PRS is a sport for able bodied people if you actual want to do well and win.

Prior to getting COvid-19 in March of 2020 between 2018 and 2019 I lost 79lbs. and was walking 10-11 miles a day and lifting weights and doing mobility drills daily. In spite of the pain I was in each day I was putting in the work. All of that was wiped away by Covid-19. Every time I try to get back into fitness I get sick. I have almost zero exercise tolerance now. Walking at a slow pace has me at my limit. Walking 1 mile has me in terrible pain the rest of the day.

I was once a great athlete.

We are lucky enough that the shooting sports has a lot of depth to it as does hunting. To conflate shooting skill with athleticism as the ultimate form of shooting skill is just wrong on many different levels!

My father in-law was a farmer. He was also a prolific hunter and shooter. He had a accident that left him a quadriplegic. In spite of this he spent the next 16 years hunting from an electric wheelchair. He made 2 trips back to Africa from his wheelchair and took game. He hunted bear, groundhogs, deer and everything else from that chair. He would literally harvest hundreds of ground hogs each year. He could outshoot most able bodied men and women. No way he could do PRS, F. NRA High Power etc....but his shooting skill was still better than most even with his diminished hand and arm dexterity.

PRS is for people of means with deep pockets that have gotten bored with CrossFit. Able bodied men and women. It makes more sense as a training tool for military and DMR than it does as a sport. That said I could make that argument for more than just PRS.

When my oldest son get's back from his service in the Middle East with the Army I am sure he would love to do PRS or 3 Gun but the price to play is too much. It's not just the gear but the ammo cost's and travel cost's. He is going to be looking for a new job before his 3 months of seperation pay runs out.

For every professional athlete that made it they figure there are at least 1000 athletes of equal ability that did not get the breaks. I dare say that for every world class shooter the number of competent shooters of their caliper must be even higher.

If I can do push-up's, sprint intervals, and play my trumpet in awkward positions does that make me a world class trumpet player of great pedagogy? I like to think my ability to do wind sprints, put my trumpet on a barricade and play a scales has nothing to do with my skill to make beautiful music with my trumpet and history generally maybe totally completely agrees with me!

If we made BR shooters run sprints and do Yoga before each stage would it do anything to demonstrate superior shooting skills, machining skills, loading skills? No it would not!

PRS is in many ways very similar to what modern US Army recruits have to do to qualify in modern BASIC and AIT just with far more expensive and advanced weapons than the M4 the Army issues to young men and women in Basic and AIT.

 

[leakeyjohn]

This is my impression of PRS after shooting a few matches. Playing H-O-R-S-E with a rifle. H-O-R-S-E isnt as fun as basketball, and you'd end running into guys that would have trick shots just for H-O-R-S-E but they weren't so good at basketball.

To add: maybe it's my experience because in the few matches I've been to I've had to shoot my bolt action offhand and also have been told for a stage you have to sit in a very specific way - sitting cross legged, with both butt cheeks firmly planted.

View attachment 1459399ry

A "Mormon" basketball court... I helped build one just like that in the early '1960's

 

[INTJ]

Thanks SPJ. I was no means in the same league as some of the heavy hitters are Deep Creek. But I realized that in LRBR it was 90 percent load tuning. Everyone can buy the same equipment. But the amount of time necessary for the dedication of tuning wasn’t something I had. Hence why you see so many retired guys shooting it.

Now I have been shooting more NRL hunter and PRS comps. Too me, the challenge of reading the wind without flags or Sighters, getting ranges, finding targets. Reading impacts, condition changes. Is all making me a more well rounded shooter, and find it much more challenging then LRBR.

So you stopped shooting LRBR because you didn't have enough time to tune and be competitive. So you switched to PRS because of a time constraint.

That would imply PRS doesn't take as much time to be competitive as LRBR.......yet you say PRS is more challenging?

I think a more correct assessment is you just like shooting PRS better than LRBR. And that is totally fine.

Also, LRBR isn't really 90% tuning. Tuning is a big part for sure, but so is handling the gun consistently, tracking, shooting quickly, and reading the mirage. Winds flags often aren't a help, and if you pick the wrong condition, even fine-tuned loads won't be enough.

 

[rhovee]

Well your assuming that I am winning PRS matches which I am far from. There is thousands of more prs shooters and they have (2) leagues. Typically about 125-150 people will show up for a shoot.

LRBR guys rarely sit at the bench and read conditions between each shot and “wait”. Most of the time you get that sighter right before your record target, then let the 5-10 shots go as quick as you can with very minor adjustments between shots.

Just not sure how your rifle being level, in a rest that tracks perfectly. Getting Sighters. Takes more skill from a shooting standpoint then doing all of that on the clock, not on a bench, with no Sighters, and no front rest.

But we have different opinions and that’s fine. Everyone doesn’t agree on topics like this. And that’s great.

 

[Alex Wheeler]

I enjoyed all the different disciplines I tried. The one that transferred most to practical field shooting was service rifle. That was all about controlling your heart rate, trigger control, and natural point of aim. Thats what field shooting is. I never shot PRS but I assume its similar but wont speak too much since I dont shoot it. I really miss service rifle it was a lot of fun. F-class was fun too, it teaches you a lot about reading conditions. I just love small groups for some reason so Br is my main interest. Even with my hunting rifles I still treated them like bench guns. Still wanted those little groups. At the end of the day they are all just games we play.

 

[XTR]

I built a rifle and got a scope for PRS, I’ve tried it, as Alex notes, we all play games when we’re shootin targets.

I call it “Rifle Yoga“.

I used to shoot IPSC/USPSA back in the late 80s before there were classes, and not so long ago picked up an STI 40 and a rig to maybe give it a run again. As I see it PRS is the same fundamental idea as action pistol. Mix a timer, movement, and some creative obstacles into a shooting match.

Personally I enjoyed it more with a pistol than with a rifle.

edit: I like the HORSE analogy above.

 

[butchlambert]

Well your assuming that I am winning PRS matches which I am far from. There is thousands of more prs shooters and they have (2) leagues. Typically about 125-150 people will show up for a shoot.

LRBR guys rarely sit at the bench and read conditions between each shot and “wait”. Most of the time you get that sighter right before your record target, then let the 5-10 shots go as quick as you can with very minor adjustments between shots.

Just not sure how your rifle being level, in a rest that tracks perfectly. Getting Sighters. Takes more skill from a shooting standpoint then doing all of that on the clock, not on a bench, with no Sighters, and no front rest.

But we have different opinions and that’s fine. Everyone doesn’t agree on topics like this. And that’s great.

So, You have shot LRBR or SRBR and did well because it was easy? Or you have not shot it but have an opinion? I will not criticize any shooting discipline that I have not participated in.

 

[rhovee]

I competed in 10 or so LRBR matches at Deep Creek including nationals and the championships. I haven't shot F-Class. Just a personal opinion, that after shooting bench rest and a handful of NRL hunter and PRS matches. If you took the 5 top competitors from each shooting style. Pulled out a rifle and said, shoot across that canyon and hit that 12" target at 600 yards with no sighters, no wind flags, no front rest, just a bipod and a rear bag. My money would be on the PRS guys. Just an opinion from shooting skill standpoint. All around best shooters in practical ways.

I learned everything i know about load development from LRBR shooters. How to read targets, tune a rifle, and thats extremely important. But I am a hunter and like to compete in a shooting sport that supports the practical aspect of long range shooting from field conditions. I realized that I can have the smallest shooting rifle, but miss the target by 12" because I wasn't level, didn't build a good position, the wind at me is different then the wind at the target etc.

I was training with one of the top PRS guys in the nation at his house. I had a 6BRA shooting very small, he had factory ammo in a 6.5 creed and was shooting MOA to break in a new barrel. No matter the stage or situation we came up with, it wasn't the rifle that was causing me to lose.

 

[Alex Wheeler]

I competed in 10 or so LRBR matches at Deep Creek including nationals and the championships. I haven't shot F-Class. Just a personal opinion, that after shooting bench rest and a handful of NRL hunter and PRS matches. If you took the 5 top competitors from each shooting style. Pulled out a rifle and said, shoot across that canyon and hit that 12" target at 600 yards with no sighters, no wind flags, no front rest, just a bipod and a rear bag. My money would be on the PRS guys. Just an opinion from shooting skill standpoint. All around best shooters in practical ways.

I learned everything i know about load development from LRBR shooters. How to read targets, tune a rifle, and thats extremely important. But I am a hunter and like to compete in a shooting sport that supports the practical aspect of long range shooting from field conditions. I realized that I can have the smallest shooting rifle, but miss the target by 12" because I wasn't level, didn't build a good position, the wind at me is different then the wind at the target etc.

I was training with one of the top PRS guys in the nation at his house. I had a 6BRA shooting very small, he had factory ammo in a 6.5 creed and was shooting MOA to break in a new barrel. No matter the stage or situation we came up with, it wasn't the rifle that was causing me to lose.

A 12" target at 600yds with a bipod and a hunting rifle?

 

[Konocti's Wigwam]

That's BS, I am Choctaw and have my tribal blood card. I am a red skinned Indian and proud of it. I ain't drinking whatever the woke folks are peddling!

That's cool, I didn't know that about you. I was once doing research to understand if any of the native American tribes had been blacksmiths and ran across information on a guy named Ned Christie. He was a blacksmith and gunsmith, both. The interesting thing about Native Americans is that fire was a type of spiritual 'thang and many didn't want to play with fire, for lack of a better analogy. There are very few blacksmiths or gunsmiths that were in the native tribes. Most all of the knives and arrow heads were made of stone. I think the only reason we didn't see more native American gunsmiths is that they seem to have traded for most of them. They seem to have had their own Fast and Furious in their day.

I own property in Lake County, CA. This was home to the Pomo tribe. This tribe mostly specialized on weaving baskets. The reason is there's a lot of tules around the lake. One island has some praying pits for pregnancy women. Oh yeah, they also made canoes out of the tules. I'm not an native Ameircan by decent, but have always felt more like one than a cowboy. I've never been able to wear boots long enough to get them entirely broken in.

Alex,

I like to make tools and have at least 5 or 6 or your tools, if not more. I have pondered tools for another industry, as 2A tools seems hard to break into. But I was curious, what was your first tool that you started with? Good for you, this is a good time for your tools.

I found that statement on the 600 yards funny also, he said he was using iron sights!

 

[Bottom Fodder]

I went and watch a friend shoot PRS, I knew in the 1st 30 mins I was to old and fat and slow todo that. And it kinda reminded me of a Bass tournament where everybody show off their lastest and greatest new gadget lol. Fclass is more my speed
but can see for some it would be fun

 

[Toejoe12]

"If you took the 5 top competitors from each shooting style. Pulled out a rifle and said, shoot across that canyon and hit that 12" target at 600 yards with no sighters, no wind flags, no front rest, just a bipod and a rear bag. My money would be on the PRS guys.

I respect all shooting disciplines and would never try and compare skill levels between the shooters in each. It's simply apples and oranges! To shoot at the top of any of them takes talent.

HOWEVER a 12" target at 600 yds. I'd take that bet and put my money on a top FClass FTR shooter. You said you've never shot FClass so you may not know FTR is shot with front bipod and rear bag.

Also National record in FTR at 600 yds is 200-19X. X ring is 3" at 600yds