HOUSTON WAREHOUSE

[Carl S]

I have shot and seen some outstanding groups shot in the tunnels with hunting and varmint rifles.its amazing what any tuned rifle can do when you haven't got the weather to contend with.

 

[CA_Shooter]

The key points about shooting in the tunnel is there is no variables in the conditions.no wind,no mirage and the temperature is constantly cool..(comfortable).one doesn't have to worry about flags or rushing to get you record shots of in a chosen condition.all one has to do is make sure your rifle is tuned set up on the machine rest,tracking properly and away you go.can I shoot these small groups in real world conditions consistently..no I can't and could Tony Boyer..im not so sure and I can't shoot like Tony Boyer.

My question may not have been clear. I wasn't asking if you could reproduce the same group size in real world conditions as you get in the tunnel.

I was instead asking:
If you find your best tuned charge in the tunnel. For example 41 grains of powder with a .006 jump shoots best in the tunnel.

Does that same powder and seating depth shoot best in real world conditions. IE 41 grains of powder with a .006 jump?

Or does some other charge and seating depth Shoot better in the real world...such as 43 grains of powder and a .030 jump?

 

[Straightshooter1]

My question may not have been clear. I wasn't asking if you could reproduce the same group size in real world conditions as you get in the tunnel.

I was instead asking:
If you find your best tuned charge in the tunnel. For example 41 grains of powder with a .006 jump shoots best in the tunnel.

Does that same powder and seating depth shoot best in real world conditions. IE 41 grains of powder with a .006 jump?

Or does some other charge and seating depth Shoot better in the real world...such as 43 grains of powder and a .030 jump?

"Real world condition" involve quite a few variables, so expecting results in real world condition like one can get in a controlled environment just isn't reasonable. What one gets in a tunnel with controlled environment is a good assessment of your weapon systems capability, not what you can expect in the "real world". A good ballistics application can one mitigate the effects of the variables. Some other charge very well could do better in the "real world", which is why we so often see things like various shooters going to higher velocities to help mitigate the "real world" issues. I see tunnel testing very helpful in identifying weapon system issues, but not much with "real world" applications. JMHO

 

[BuffaloBill]

My question may not have been clear. I wasn't asking if you could reproduce the same group size in real world conditions as you get in the tunnel.

I was instead asking:
If you find your best tuned charge in the tunnel. For example 41 grains of powder with a .006 jump shoots best in the tunnel.

Does that same powder and seating depth shoot best in real world conditions. IE 41 grains of powder with a .006 jump?

Or does some other charge and seating depth Shoot better in the real world...such as 43 grains of powder and a .030 jump?

I understand your question and am also interested in the answer.

 

[Carl S]

My question may not have been clear. I wasn't asking if you could reproduce the same group size in real world conditions as you get in the tunnel.

I was instead asking:
If you find your best tuned charge in the tunnel. For example 41 grains of powder with a .006 jump shoots best in the tunnel.

Does that same powder and seating depth shoot best in real world conditions. IE 41 grains of powder with a .006 jump?

Or does some other charge and seating depth Shoot better in the real world...such as 43 grains of powder and a .030 jump?

Sorry I miss understood your question slightly.ive found that it is not the same or the conditions outside the tunnel don't allow it to be the same.i can shoot groups inside the tunnel smaller and more consistent time after time,even with the same powder,bullet and bullet seating depth etc as shooting outside the tunnel.I can shoot groups better one day than I can another even with conditions similar and same bullet,powder combination.may be some of the more experienced shooters can shed more light on why things change from one day to another..Dave Tooley,Jackie,Bart and all the other experienced shooters could give us a idea why.maybe we have to tune our loads slightly different from one day to the next if conditions dictate it.

 

[jk80]

Unless I heard him wrong, in the video speedy said he worked up a very good load at the Huston warehouse and when he went to shoot a match with them they were a flop. It sounded like his opinion was working up a load in real world conditions worked best.

 

[CA_Shooter]

Sorry I miss understood your question slightly.ive found that it is not the same or the conditions outside the tunnel don't allow it to be the same.i can shoot groups inside the tunnel smaller and more consistent time after time,even with the same powder,bullet and bullet seating depth etc as shooting outside the tunnel.I can shoot groups better one day than I can another even with conditions similar and same bullet,powder combination.may be some of the more experienced shooters can shed more light on why things change from one day to another..Dave Tooley,Jackie,Bart and all the other experienced shooters could give us a idea why.maybe we have to tune our loads slightly different from one day to the next if conditions dictate it.

So it sounds like a good load in the tunnel is a good load outside the tunnel?

 

[Carl S]

So it sounds like a good load in the tunnel is a good load outside the tunnel?

Sorry Sir I didn't explain myself very clearly..in short if I shoot the same load inside as I do outside.i get better results inside the tunnels.Regards.

 

[Carl S]

The good thing about the tunnels is one can test a rifles true capabilities and load development.ive tested a 6BR and 6.5x47 this week,both rifles I have rebarreld.they are for hunting applications and accuracy is excellent.really helps when there's no conditions to deal with.

 

[BP1]

Sorry I miss understood your question slightly.ive found that it is not the same or the conditions outside the tunnel don't allow it to be the same.i can shoot groups inside the tunnel smaller and more consistent time after time,even with the same powder,bullet and bullet seating depth etc as shooting outside the tunnel.I can shoot groups better one day than I can another even with conditions similar and same bullet,powder combination.may be some of the more experienced shooters can shed more light on why things change from one day to another..Dave Tooley,Jackie,Bart and all the other experienced shooters could give us a idea why.maybe we have to tune our loads slightly different from one day to the next if conditions dictate it.

I believe a lot of BR shooters will adjust powder charge throughout a match. The tunnel will serve one well for getting a no wind zero.

 

[257ack]

I know, or knew, several shooters who participated in Virgil’s Houston Warehouse experiments.

Most lack your enthusiasm for the practical information garnered.

That’s my way of saying that the work ups simply did not translate well in the real world.

I have shot many matches with Don Geraci (afew with Jackie) and I talked with him often about the warehouse. He told me that he did not do quite as as well as some of the others but kicked thier butt in registered matches. Don has a very colorful vocabulary and used other words. He said that some of the stuff they did would not even matter. In group shooting one needs a very good rifle, Have it in tune and WATCH THE FLAGS and start your group at the right time and keep shooting unless the conditions suddenly change.. If it aint shot at a registered match, it dont count. I never had one but I knew a few shooters who had hummers and did not watch the flags quite as well. After the barrel wore out they found out how important that the flags were.

 

[Carl S]

I believe a lot of BR shooters will adjust powder charge throughout a match. The tunnel will serve one well for getting a no wind zero.

Yes I think the experienced shooters may do it all the time to accommodate the conditions on a given day.may be others tune there rifles-loads in good and bad conditions and settle for a load in between that will agg good on any given day and make them competitive in any condition.

 

[jackieschmidt]

Unless I heard him wrong, in the video speedy said he worked up a very good load at the Huston warehouse and when he went to shoot a match with them they were a flop. It sounded like his opinion was working up a load in real world conditions worked best.

He wasn’t the only one to have the same experience.

 

[bsekf]

In the last few paragraphs of the Virgil King interview, he is asked what the most important thing was, and he said, "case preparation". However, he never told the interviewer what they were!

I found the entire article very interesting. When was the last time you shot a rifle with a quarter OUNCE trigger? Or spent time trying to get a bolt into an action that only had 0.0001 tolerance? I don't believe he was saying he was the world's best shot or his methods were the best. He just said what worked for him. He was taking out the wind variable and only the rifle and shooter were being measured.

Like talking to Don Bower of long range Contender fame. You might not agree with him, but his methods sure worked for him.

 

[butchlambert]

You need to watch this.

Why?

 

[butchlambert]

How many top BR shooters use 21-3/4" barrels...

Several

 

[butchlambert]

In the last few paragraphs of the Virgil King interview, he is asked what the most important thing was, and he said, "case preparation". However, he never told the interviewer what they were!

I found the entire article very interesting. When was the last time you shot a rifle with a quarter OUNCE trigger? Or spent time trying to get a bolt into an action that only had 0.0001 tolerance? I don't believe he was saying he was the world's best shot or his methods were the best. He just said what worked for him. He was taking out the wind variable and only the rifle and shooter were being measured.

Like talking to Don Bower of long range Contender fame. You might not agree with him, but his methods sure worked for him.

You can strive for .0001" tolerance, but not .0001" clearance between the bolt and receiver bore.

 

[BoydAllen]

Why?

Did you watch it? My reason was to point out that a Hall of Fame member actually tried what had worked in the warehouse outdoors and it did not work. I posted it to counter the thought that all we need to do is what was reported to work in the warehouse and we will improve our results. It did not work that way.

 

[Tim Singleton]

I imagine some pretty light loads can be made to shoot tiny in a tunnel or warehouse that would never survive outside.
No way a bolt that tight would open with loads most are using today

 

[Tim Singleton]

I had Hall 7 or 8 years ago that had large bolt body and really tight bolt fit
Man that thing would shoot with lighter loads.
took me a while to figure out why I couldn’t get the bolt open with hotter loads
bolt would cycle up but you couldn’t get it to move backward and extract at all