Hornady headspace gauge?

[justinp61]

Are the inserts bored straight through or do they taper to match the shoulder?

Thanks.

 

[CatShooter]

Are the inserts bored straight through or do they taper to match the shoulder?

Thanks.

They are bored through, then some dummy chamfers the bore to remove the flash - so they are not accurate.

 

[Brians356]

Are the inserts bored straight through or do they taper to match the shoulder?

Thanks.

They are bored through, then some dummy chamfers the bore to remove the flash - so they are not accurate.

They are plenty accurate enough for what they are intended to do - measure relative changes in shoulder position at whatever arbitrary datum line the bushing establishes by contact. Contrary to the name Hornady gave them, they cannot be used as "headspace gauges" in the proper sense. Headspace is not measured from fired cases, it is determined from the chamber itself, using go/no-go gauges.

 

[bigedp51]

Are the inserts bored straight through or do they taper to match the shoulder?

Thanks.

They are bored through, then some dummy chamfers the bore to remove the flash - so they are not accurate.

Below a Colt Field gauge for the AR 15, 1.4736

Below the same Colt gauge in my "calibrated" Hornady cartridge case headspace gauge.

The gauge is bored through and the opening beveled/rounded from the factory. I spin the cases in the gauge to get consistent readings and the brass will rub through the anodizing. The gauge would read .011 short of the actual Colt Headspace gauge, the set screw was backed off between the body halves and a .011 feeler gauge was inserted between the two halves. After a few fittings and wiggling the vernier caliper figure matched the Colt gauge.

I now use my Wilson gauges as paper weights and pen holders.

P.S. I really like you and "some" of your postings, "BUT" some days I think your underwear is too tight and is making you grumpy. Tell your wife to lower the temp on the drier and your underwear wont be like a tight neck chamber. I know it took a lot of balls to say this but maybe you also need some Duluth Ballroom Jeans.

Bazinga

 

[CatShooter]

Are the inserts bored straight through or do they taper to match the shoulder?

Thanks.

They are bored through, then some dummy chamfers the bore to remove the flash - so they are not accurate.

They are plenty accurate enough for what they are intended to do - measure relative changes in shoulder position at whatever arbitrary datum line the bushing establishes by contact.

Actually, they are not - they are represented as to be able to measure headspace of cases - they cannot do that, unless one goes through the steps that Edwardus Maximus has described.

They are NOT represented as "relative changes gauges".

 

[Brians356]

Are the inserts bored straight through or do they taper to match the shoulder?

Thanks.

They are bored through, then some dummy chamfers the bore to remove the flash - so they are not accurate.

They are plenty accurate enough for what they are intended to do - measure relative changes in shoulder position at whatever arbitrary datum line the bushing establishes by contact.

Actually, they are not - they are represented as to be able to measure headspace of cases - they cannot do that, unless one goes through the steps that Edwardus Maximus has described.

They are NOT represented as "relative changes gauges".

I was editing my post while you replied to it.

I'd love to meet the gunsmith who, when chambering a barrel, uses the Hornady Headspace Gauge to verify proper headspace. I really would.

Read Hornady's instructions. Where does it say it can be used to check a gun's headspace? Hint: Nowhere.

What the instructions do say:

"The gauge measures variations in your brass before and after firing, or resizing."

I agree the product is grossly misnamed. But to be fair, Hornady does NOT represent them as being able to measure headspace - either actual headspace, or "headspace of cases". Chambers have headspace - not cases. And Hornady does not say in the manual you can "measure headspace". It says exactly what I quoted - period. It is intended to be used as a guide in adjusting sizing dies, and also in monitoring movement of the shoulder before/after firing, which if applied to unfired factory loads, could provide an indication of a possible excess chamber headspace problem.

 

[CatShooter]

The title of the thread is "Hornady headspace gauge", and just about everybody refers to them that way.

 

[Brians356]

The title of the thread is "Hornady headspace gauge", and just about everybody refers to them that way.

Thanks for pointing that out. Could it be because the actual product name is "Lock-N-Load Headspace Gauge"? Just a WAG.

 

[justinp61]

The title represents what Hornady refers to tool as. I should've stated what my intentions were. I plan on turning a bushing for my 260 and was curious as to how it was bored. All I want to use it for is to determine how much I'm bumping the shoulders back.

Thanks

 

[Brians356]

The title represents what Hornady refers to tool as. I should've stated what my intentions were. I plan on turning a bushing for my 260 and was curious as to how it was bored. All I want to use it for is to determine how much I'm bumping the shoulders back.

Thanks

If you mean 260 Rem, the bushing ID should be 0.400" and just slightly chamfer or round over the corner to make it less susceptible to damage. It will contact the shoulder very close to the actual SAAMI datum line, and the changes you read there will be exactly what you need.

 

[bigedp51]

Below is a fired case from my AR15 carbine reading the cases actual headspace reading, this cartridge case is longer than a .223 GO or NO-GO gauge. If you do not have a set of headspace gauges in .001 increments my Hornady headspace tells me more than standard headspace gauges. The only "ball park" figure here is how much spring back the fired case has. All a headspace gauge tells you is if the bolt will close, and if the bolt partially closes the bolt handle will not give you a headspace reading in thousandths. Therefore my Hornady headspae gauge gives me "MORE" information than a true headspace gauge.

Headspace is also the distance between your ears and how you use the grey matter in between.

Bottom line, I'm "NOT" adjusting the rifles headspace, I'm using the information to set the shoulder bump of the resized cases.

Hornady Lock-N-Load Headspace Gage 5 Bushing Set with Comparator
Product Information

The Hornady Lock-N-Load Headspace Gage is a great tool for increasing the accuracy of your loaded ammunition. The Headspace gage measures from the case-head to the datum line on the case shoulder to allow proper brass resizing for a precise fit with the rifle chamber. Bushings fit the comparator body and attach to calipers with a thumb screw. Can be used with bottleneck cases from 17 caliber through large belted magnums.

Technical Information

Function: To measure from the case-head to the datum line on case shoulders for proper brass resizing

•All bushing are interchangeable.

•Works on all bottleneck type cases and wildcats.

•This set fits 17 caliber through belted magnums.

•Must be used with Calipers.


http://ads.midwayusa.com/product/479704/hornady-lock-n-load-headspace-gage-5-bushing-set-with-comparator?cm_vc=ProductFinding

 

[justinp61]

If you mean 260 Rem, the bushing ID should be 0.400" and just slightly chamfer or round over the corner to make it less susceptible to damage. It will contact the shoulder very close to the actual SAAMI datum line, and the changes you read there will be exactly what you need.

Yes, this is for my 260 Remington. I like to play with my 80 year old South Bend lathe from time to time.

 

[ireload2]

Therefore my Hornady headspae gauge gives me "MORE" information than a true headspace gauge.

That is correct. If you have a fired case you can check your case with it.

Then find a longer case and set your FL die about .005 too long for your rifle.
Check the case in your chamber. You can continue senaking up on your chamber until you have a case that just barely chambers. I usually strip the bolt so I can feel a very slight drag when closing the bolt.
Once set I FL size all cases to that dimension. I write the dimension in my note book for reference later.
I lock the FL die at that setting.

If you find you have head to shoulder variations when FL sizing you will be able to read the variations with the Hornady tool.
These variations are caused by variations in the amount of case lube used, rate of sizing (how fast you cram the case into the die) , dwell time (how long the press dwells at full stroke, temper of the brass, finish of the brass (polished or not polished), how many times you cycle the case in the FL die etc. The proof of the pudding is that all cases in a lot are exactly the same.

To get them all the same you have can do the following

1. Make sure each case is lubed the same within reason
2. Slow cycle the ram at about half speed
3. When the ram is at the top of the first stroke let it dwell 3 to 5 seconds to let the brass quit creeping.
4. Lower the ram slightly (do not pull the case over the expander). Turn the case 120 degress and size again - slowly with a dwell then repeat the turning and size for the 3rd time.
5. Pull the case out of the press and check it. It should be exactly the same length as the previous cases.

Without the Hornady tool you would never know that you can make the head to shoulder distance vary by .002 or .003 just by your sizing technique.

And finally if you have a set of real headspace gauges you can set your Hornady tool with them for a given cartridge. You can then measure the length of a case that is a drag fit in your chamber and you will know your chamber length vs the headspace gauge length.

If you disagree with any of this try it before you bark.
I can assure you that you will induce head to shoulder length variations unless your technique is designed to eliminate all the sizing variables.

This would be a wonderful tool if the components were mounted on a 2 to 3 inch or 3 to 4 inch micrometer and the edges of the bushing bores were not broken. Heat treeated steel bushings would be better too.

 

[243winxb]

http://www.brownells.com/.aspx/lid=12897/GunTechdetail/Gauging_Success___Minimum_Headspace_and_Maximum_COL

 

[Brians356]

http://www.brownells.com/.aspx/lid=12897/GunTechdetail/Gauging_Success___Minimum_Headspace_and_Maximum_COL

Quote:

"Hornady makes an inexpensive cartridge headspace gauge ... that can check the headspace reference dimension of: new brass, cartridges and, almost, a gun's headspace dimension"

"Almost" = "Close, but no cigar!"

 

[Richard Jones]

I guess everyone has seen this? http://bulletin.accurateshooter.com/2007/07/tech-tip-poor-mans-headspace-gauge/

(Altho' a .40 might hit the 'datum line' closer). Hmmmmmmm..........

 

[Brians356]

I guess everyone has seen this? http://bulletin.accurateshooter.com/2007/07/tech-tip-poor-mans-headspace-gauge/

(Altho' a .40 might hit the 'datum line' closer). Hmmmmmmm..........

Any bushing opening that contacts the shoulder proper somewhere in the middle will work for detecting relative changes. The bushing just needs to be clear of the radii at either end of the shoulder.

 

[justinp61]

Any bushing opening that contacts the shoulder proper somewhere in the middle will work for detecting relative changes. The bushing just needs to be clear of the radii at either end of the shoulder.

That's what I was thinking, so I'll drill it with a 13/32", .4063 bit.

 

[ireload2]

If you have a headspace gauge to set the Hornady tool with it will tell you much more than the real headspace gauge.
The real gauge only tell you if you do not exceed or exceed a limit. You do not get a specific dimension.
The closest you can get to the real number with a headspace guage is with a set like the Forster 11 gauge sets.
The Hornday tool used with a headspace gauge will tell you the length from head to shoulder of the case with a high degree of confidence. The gauge may have a chamfered edge but this is overcome by setting the caliper with the HS gauge. The actual case dimension will be only a few thousandths different from the HS gauge so there is little error contributed from the caliper. You get a better reading of the chamber if you can size a case that will barely drag when the bolt is closed. This means you have moderate contact on both ends of the case. Once you get your FL die set to match your chamber you can fire annealed case necks that will retain the dimension of the chamber. Nothing is ever perfect but out side of making a screw adjustable guage or putting a little man in the chamber this works pretty well - certainly well enough to set your FL die nearly perfect.
If this is still not good enough you can add a bushing holder to a 2-3 or 4-5 tenths (.0001) micrometer. Anything better might require a dial test indicator and a height micrometer to measure.
Like horseshoes, hand grenades, nuclear weapons close enough counts.

http://www.brownells.com/.aspx/lid=12897/GunTechdetail/Gauging_Success___Minimum_Headspace_and_Maximum_COL

Quote:

"Hornady makes an inexpensive cartridge headspace gauge ... that can check the headspace reference dimension of: new brass, cartridges and, almost, a gun's headspace dimension"

"Almost" = "Close, but no cigar!"

 

[justinp61]

I finished my bushings today, one to check shoulder bump back and one for the bullet comparator. I loaded a test round, fired it and set up the resizing die and bumped the shoulder back .002".

Now if my tap would show up :'(. I checked the tracking number on the usps site, it took almost 3 days for my package to travel 39 miles .

Has anyone measured the 5-26 comparator used for checking 6.5mm bullets? I made mine .250", the next size bit I have is .267". I may see if I can borrow a F (.257) if needed.

Thanks for the help guys, Justin.